Waltham Regulator Loses Power

Discussion in 'Clock Repair' started by ChrisBeattie, Apr 14, 2017.

  1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.
  1. ChrisBeattie

    ChrisBeattie Registered User
    NAWCC Member

    Dec 9, 2004
    238
    0
    0
    Associate Director of Campus Safety
    Canandaigua, NY
    Country Flag:
    Region Flag:
    Hello all! It has been quite a few years since I have visited the Message Board. I'm hoping someone can offer me some advice and knowledge. I have been working on a large Waltham wall regulator (roughly 6' tall) and have a power question, and this is the first Waltham I have worked on. I have included a photo to coincide with my question as well. On the great wheel there is a secondary click/gear which should help to hold power. I am not exactly sure what it is supposed to do and hope that someone can explain it to me. So I disassembled the movement, cleaned it and reassembled it. On my test stand it stopped after just a few days. I noticed that when I turned the secondary/inner gear with my hand it didn't seem to hold much resistance. After tightening that gear gear and starting the clock again it ran perfectly for 5 weeks (winding once per week). I remove the weight, reinstall the movement in its case and low and behold, it stops running after about a day and a half. I tested the secondary gear (name unknown) and it had once again lost its power. After tightening it, it seems to be running with much more power as the tick-tock it MUCH louder than before. What the heck is this inner/secondary gear and what is its purpose? Is this what caused very little power to run the clock once the weight has been removed? Any help would be appreciated. I have another issue with a German Grandfather clock stopping after 4 days but will start a new post for that question. Thank you in advance,
    Chris

    [​IMG][​IMG]
     
  2. Steven Thornberry

    Steven Thornberry User Administrator
    NAWCC Member

    Jan 15, 2004
    17,817
    20
    38
    Country Flag:
    Those are the gear and pawl for the maintaining power, which keeps the clock running while being wound.
     
  3. ChrisBeattie

    ChrisBeattie Registered User
    NAWCC Member

    Dec 9, 2004
    238
    0
    0
    Associate Director of Campus Safety
    Canandaigua, NY
    Country Flag:
    Region Flag:
    So it's just for maintaining power while winding and not throughout the entire cycle? OK. Thanks for the information.
    Chris
     
  4. Tinker Dwight

    Tinker Dwight Registered User

    Oct 11, 2010
    13,680
    28
    0
    Calif. USA
    There is a spring between that wheel and the drum.
    It is often a minimal spring of maybe 1/2 turn.
    Sometime it is just the cut of the brass. It only has to run
    the clock for a minute or so while winding.
    Tightening it up will only make the clock run stronger for
    about 10-20 minutes, at most. After that you are back
    on the weight and drum.
    Your problem is not related to this, you have some other poor
    running issue.
    Check the pulleys. They are often overlooked.
    Tinker Dwight
     
  5. shutterbug

    shutterbug Moderator
    NAWCC Member

    Oct 19, 2005
    34,335
    29
    48
    Self employed interpreter/clock repairer
    Iowa
    Country Flag:
    Region Flag:
    I agree with the others. The maintaining gear should not be in effect until power is released from the wheel (winding). It is quite possible that the needed spring is missing or broken, but that would not affect the clock at all except that you lose a couple of seconds in time (whatever it takes to wind the weights). Since it works well on the test stand, look for obstructions in the case. Maybe the pendulum rubbing the back of the seat board, or something like that. Also look for the cables rubbing. That will stop the clock. Also look at the pulleys as Tinker suggested.
    Another possible is that while on the test stand you were using the weights in the normal fashion - hung under the movement. That would give you twice the weight that you have when the weight is hanging from the pulley system in the case. It may have run on the stand because of being over powered.
     
  6. Tinker Dwight

    Tinker Dwight Registered User

    Oct 11, 2010
    13,680
    28
    0
    Calif. USA
    Actually the direction of the cable has no effect on the tension
    or at lease only one pulleys friction.
    The weight is divided by 2 by the pulley on the weight.
    The tension on the cable is the weight/2.
    Tinker Dwight
     
  7. Willie X

    Willie X Registered User

    Feb 9, 2008
    8,065
    29
    48
    It doesn't appear to be compounded in the photo. The power would not be divided.
    That weight looks to be homemade. I might be a bit under what is needed, or borderline. I am not familiar with that movement but similar compounded movements would require around 6 or 7#. Is your weight around 3 1/2#?
    Easy to check the maintaining power function, just remove the weight. It should continue ticking for several minutes.
    Willie X
     
  8. bruce linde

    bruce linde Technical Admin
    NAWCC Member

    Nov 13, 2011
    1,775
    4
    38
    Country Flag:
    Region Flag:
    is this not a second pulley, i.e., compounded?

    it would be interesting to know the weight of the weight.


    [​IMG]
     
  9. Willie X

    Willie X Registered User

    Feb 9, 2008
    8,065
    29
    48
    Yes it is! That weight would need to be around 6 or 7#.

    Also, that cord looks a bit crowded on the drum. And, is it rubbing where it goes between the maintaining pawl's arbor and corner post?
    Neither of these two areas would make a big difference but could decrease the power slightly.
    Willie X
     
  10. bruce linde

    bruce linde Technical Admin
    NAWCC Member

    Nov 13, 2011
    1,775
    4
    38
    Country Flag:
    Region Flag:
    i blew up the first photo but couldn't really make out whether the weight cord is bumping against the corner post and pawl arbor... hmm..

    also... when you oiled, did you put a subtle little smear on the pallets? and... and maybe on the crutch pin where it goes through the crutch plate/pendulum? i've found that too much crutch plate slop is noisy but workable, where too little will definitely affect power.

    grasping at straws, here... more photos and info, please! :cool:
     
  11. Tinker Dwight

    Tinker Dwight Registered User

    Oct 11, 2010
    13,680
    28
    0
    Calif. USA
    The Geneva stop looks wrong. It looks like someone replaced
    part of it and it only counts half the teeth.
    Can we see a picture of it when it stops?
    Tinker Dwight
     
  12. bruce linde

    bruce linde Technical Admin
    NAWCC Member

    Nov 13, 2011
    1,775
    4
    38
    Country Flag:
    Region Flag:

    or, just take off the geneva stop and see if it keeps running ...
     
  13. shutterbug

    shutterbug Moderator
    NAWCC Member

    Oct 19, 2005
    34,335
    29
    48
    Self employed interpreter/clock repairer
    Iowa
    Country Flag:
    Region Flag:
    It looks like it winds clockwise, and the stops just locked it in the highest position. By the way, I can't remember if the maintenance wheel should be opposite the click wheel like that. Could that be stopping the clock?
     
  14. Tinker Dwight

    Tinker Dwight Registered User

    Oct 11, 2010
    13,680
    28
    0
    Calif. USA

    It needs to be between the main ratchet wheel and the main wheel. That
    looks right to me.
    It winds clockwise and the stop is at full wind. What I don't like
    about it is that it looks to move two teeth instead of one tooth for
    each turn of the arbor. It would on run half as long as expected.
    Tinker Dwight
     
  15. shutterbug

    shutterbug Moderator
    NAWCC Member

    Oct 19, 2005
    34,335
    29
    48
    Self employed interpreter/clock repairer
    Iowa
    Country Flag:
    Region Flag:
    I meant that they are winding in different directions, Tinker. The main click turns clockwise but the maintenance click turns CCW. I don't have one to look at, but that just seems wrong in my mind.
     
  16. Tinker Dwight

    Tinker Dwight Registered User

    Oct 11, 2010
    13,680
    28
    0
    Calif. USA
    I'll admit it can be confusing but it is right. The cable on the drum winds
    the maintenance spring in the direction of run while the winder lifts the
    weight in the opposite direction of run.
    I always have to think about it some my self to justify how it works.
    Tinker Dwight
     
  17. Willie X

    Willie X Registered User

    Feb 9, 2008
    8,065
    29
    48
    #17 Willie X, Apr 18, 2017
    Last edited: Apr 18, 2017
    Back to the basics. Do all of the arbors, including the mainwheel arbor, have end shake and do you have good locking at the e-wheel with a nice sharp edge at the ledge where the dead face transitions to the impulse. You should have easily noticable over-swing, after the e-wheel tooth drops onto the dead face it should slide up the face for a short distance before starting back toward the impulse face. If your weight is to light, your clock will never run properly. Did you weigh your weight yet?
    Also, do those two weight pullies match? Seems a little odd that a 6' long clock would need that extra pulley.
    Willie X
     
  18. ChrisBeattie

    ChrisBeattie Registered User
    NAWCC Member

    Dec 9, 2004
    238
    0
    0
    Associate Director of Campus Safety
    Canandaigua, NY
    Country Flag:
    Region Flag:
    Hello all,
    Thank you all for the ideas and items to check. I do believe the weight is 6 or 7 lbs. but will check to be sure. I don't think there is any "rubbing" of the cord anywhere as I looked for that issue to ensure that wasn't the problem. I also did check the end shake of all arbors and do have a bit of over-swing. Not drastic, but noticeable slightly. I have oiled the pallets and also the pendulum rod where it meets the crutch. I do think the Geneva stop was ok and not part of the issue, but now you have me second guessing so I will re-look at that. I am pretty sure that when it stopped the Geneva stop was not engaged with other teeth, hence not even touching. The clock is at a friends house and I will get to it as soon as I can but work for a college and we are within a few weeks of graduation. Busiest "time" of the year :D.

    Thanks again for the great ideas, I will get back soon. Regards,
    Chris
     
  19. Tinker Dwight

    Tinker Dwight Registered User

    Oct 11, 2010
    13,680
    28
    0
    Calif. USA
    Also look to see if the stop is hanging. The
    fact that the maintenance ratchet was loose indicates
    that the drum wasn't being allowed to turn.
    Other than the cable being jammed, I can't think of anything
    but the stop causing the issues.
    Does the lower gear of the stop turn freely? It should
    have some resistance. I believe it should have a light wavy
    washer under it. The vibration of the movement might shift
    it to a point that is jams the arbor.
    Tinker Dwight
     
Loading...
Similar Threads - Waltham Regulator Loses Forum Date
Waltham Grandfather Clock Chime Adjustment Clock Repair Monday at 12:04 PM
9 tube placement Waltham Grandfather clock Clock Repair Oct 12, 2017
Waltham Banjo Movement Clock Repair Jun 17, 2017
Waltham Regulator #35 Clock Repair Oct 5, 2010
Repair case on Waltham #13 regulator Clock Repair Feb 22, 2004

Share This Page