Waltham Pocket Watch Identification

[Yebojoe]

Hello! I recently inherited a Waltham pocket watch and am having trouble identifying it. When I lookup the model it appears that many of them are different to my design and the jewel count varies. It appears to be solid gold(scratches look solid on the inside too) but the model lookup said Nickel as the material. It has a patent on the case saying April 22 1879. It originally came in a display case where it hangs from a clear container as a display piece. I also cannot find one with a similar face either. Can anyone lend me some of their vast knowledge on this topic lol
-Incase the picture is hard to read the number on the watch is 5682561. It also says American Waltham Watch Co.
-The case reads 751878.
-The face reads American Waltham with a small American flag.

 

[musicguy]

Hi Yebojoe and welcome to the NAWCC Forum!



Rob

 

[Yebojoe]

Thanks Rob!

 

[MrRoundel]

Welcome to the NAWCC's pocket watch message board.

This link PWDatabase Info should tell you a lot of what you want to know. In short, it is a 7 jewel 1883 model Waltham. It is housed in a nice Fahy's Watch Case Co. gold-filled Montauk case.

 

[1908]

Welcome to the forum. Not sure if this is of any help Waltham Pocket Watch: Serial Number 5682561 (Grade No. 1) (pocketwatchdatabase.com)

Stephen

 

[Kent]

Hi Yebojoe:

Please add my welcome to those of the others.

To add to the good information posted by them:

Please excuse me if I repeat some of what they posted, or what you already know, it's easier for me this way. Checking the references listed in the Waltham Watches Encyclopedia article (and looking at your pictures), Waltham movement serial number 5,682,561 can be seen to be
an 18-size,
model 1883,
grade No. 1,
unadjusted,
pendant-set,
open-face movement,
having 7 jewels,
and a Plain Regulator.
The movement is fitted with a single-sunk, Roman dial having a hand-painted image.
It was built in about 1892, give or take a year or so. This was a popular movement of which over 583,000 of this variation were made from about 1890 to 1902.

You can see a catalog description of the No. 1 grade, and where it fits in Waltham's line of 18-size movements, on the catalog page shown below.

If you tell us the markings stamped inside the back of the Watch Case (or post a picture of them), we may be able to tell you something about it. You can ignore any "hand-scratched" characters, they're probably Watch Repairers' Marks.

Unless you know that it has been properly cleaned and oiled within the last few years, you should have the watch serviced before running it very much. It may be helpful for you to read the Encyclopedia article on Watch Service and its related links, especially the one to the message board thread on the subject. The Encyclopedia article on Choosing a Pocket Watch Repair Person may be useful as well.

Having gathered and printed out information about a family watch, it is a wise idea to write out as much as you know about the family member to whom the watch originally belonged - or as far back as you can go, including (and clearly identifying) what you can guess. Then, add the names and relationships of the family members who passed it down to the current holder. Make up a booklet with this and all of the watch information and try to keep it with the watch. You might even include a CD or, better yet, a USB thumb drive with copies of the pictures or information, in addition to the printouts. Even though they may not be readable 100 years from now, some more recent descendent may transfer the files to the then current format and media. This way, the watch has real family heritage instead of it just being an old family watch, the identity and relationship of the original owner having been lost in the distant past.

Unfortunately, many of the links in our Encyclopedia articles were disrupted when we changed to the current version of our Message Board and its been a long process getting them all reinstated. So, if you come across a broken link and want to see what it led to, just let us know and we'll try and post it.

Please feel free to ask about anything that isn't clear to you.

Good luck,

 

[Yebojoe]

Welcome to the NAWCC's pocket watch message board.

This link PWDatabase Info should tell you a lot of what you want to know. In short, it is a 7 jewel 1883 model Waltham. It is housed in a nice Fahy's Watch Case Co. gold-filled Montauk case.

See that was the confusing part, the images from other similar models looked like the jewel placement and back innards was different. Does that seem accurate for this one?

 

[Yebojoe]

Hi Yebojoe:

Please add my welcome to those of the others.

To add to the good information posted by them:

Please excuse me if I repeat some of what they posted, or what you already know, it's easier for me this way. Checking the references listed in the Waltham Watches Encyclopedia article (and looking at your pictures), Waltham movement serial number 5,682,561 can be seen to be
an 18-size,
model 1883,
grade No. 1,
unadjusted,
pendant-set,
open-face movement,
having 7 jewels,
and a Plain Regulator.
The movement is fitted with a single-sunk, Roman dial having a hand-painted image.
It was built in about 1892, give or take a year or so. This was a popular movement of which over 583,000 of this variation were made from about 1890 to 1902.

You can see a catalog description of the No. 1 grade, and where it fits in Waltham's line of 18-size movements, on the catalog page shown below.

If you tell us the markings stamped inside the back of the Watch Case (or post a picture of them), we may be able to tell you something about it. You can ignore any "hand-scratched" characters, they're probably Watch Repairers' Marks.

Unless you know that it has been properly cleaned and oiled within the last few years, you should have the watch serviced before running it very much. It may be helpful for you to read the Encyclopedia article on Watch Service and its related links, especially the one to the message board thread on the subject. The Encyclopedia article on Choosing a Pocket Watch Repair Person may be useful as well.

Having gathered and printed out information about a family watch, it is a wise idea to write out as much as you know about the family member to whom the watch originally belonged - or as far back as you can go, including (and clearly identifying) what you can guess. Then, add the names and relationships of the family members who passed it down to the current holder. Make up a booklet with this and all of the watch information and try to keep it with the watch. You might even include a CD or, better yet, a USB thumb drive with copies of the pictures or information, in addition to the printouts. Even though they may not be readable 100 years from now, some more recent descendent may transfer the files to the then current format and media. This way, the watch has real family heritage instead of it just being an old family watch, the identity and relationship of the original owner having been lost in the distant past.

Unfortunately, many of the links in our Encyclopedia articles were disrupted when we changed to the current version of our Message Board and its been a long process getting them all reinstated. So, if you come across a broken link and want to see what it led to, just let us know and we'll try and post it.

Please feel free to ask about anything that isn't clear to you.

Good luck,

View attachment 751783

This is quite helpful, the watch case was a table ornament hanger and the plastic was broken so we were forced to throw it away. The back part of the watch(if that’s what you meant) only says PAT APRIL 22 1879 with a fahys montauk No.1 seal. It also has a serial number: 751878 and hand scratched letters beneath as you had mentioned. As for the history, my aunt was an antique dealer and it would be impossible unfortunately . As far as grade no. 1 goes, is that a good thing in terms of value? I saw your sheet read $20 but I couldn’t decipher any other words since they blur from zooming.

 

[topspin]

If you look up the 1883 model here

NAWCC-Info

you'll see it was in production for nearly 40 years, with numerous grades being produced (in a mixture of hunter, openface, & keywind configurations.)
Think "Ford Escort" and you'll get the idea.
I hope this answers the question as to why they don't all look quite the same.

The little flag on the dial looks to be someone's little "personalisation". It is not uncommon to see similar "artworks" randomly doodled on a dial.

The movement appears to be seated incorrectly in the case (stem at around 58.5 minutes, also the movement screws are askew from the screw marks on the case.)

Does it wind, set, & run correctly?
Do you know when it was last serviced by someone who knows what he's doing?

The database says the movement finish is Gilt (that's the rusty-golden-brown colour which probably looked quite nice when it was new) rather than Nickel (the stainless-steel colour which many movements used instead.)

As noted above, the case is gold-filled (which is better than gold-plate, but certainly not the same thing as solid gold.)

In terms of financial value - check the Sold Listings (on ebay or whichever outlet you were considering selling it on) for similar watches. In the meantime let's just say "not very much". Grade 1 is a very common, low grade. I hope it will be worth more to you as an heirloom with family history.

 

[musicguy]

The movement appears to be seated incorrectly in the case (stem at around 58.5 minutes, also the movement screws are askew from the screw marks on the case.)

Does it wind, set, & run correctly?

Yes, does it run?


Rob

 

[MrRoundel]

See that was the confusing part, the images from other similar models looked like the jewel placement and back innards was different. Does that seem accurate for this one?

I think what you are seeing is that yours was made to fit an open face case, i.e., wind at 12:00, where some on the page in the linked-to page were made for a hunter case, i.e., winds at 3:00. I guess they lumped the two configurations together in this one. They don't always do that. Cheers.

 

[Kent]

... I saw your sheet read $20 but I couldn’t decipher any other words since they blur from zooming. ...

The price of the grade No. 1 movement was $10.00, not $20.00. It sounds like you tried to 'blow-up' the thumbnail image instead of right-clicking on it and choosing to open it a new tab or new window. Please try again.





Your Watch Case is gold-filled and was made by Joseph Fahys & Co.

 

[Yebojoe]

The price of the grade No. 1 movement was $10.00, not $20.00. It sounds like you tried to 'blow-up' the thumbnail image instead of right-clicking on it and choosing to open it a new tab or new window. Please try again.


View attachment 751812 View attachment 751813


Your Watch Case is gold-filled and was made by Joseph Fahys & Co.

View attachment 751814 View attachment 751815 View attachment 751816 View attachment 751817 View attachment 751818 View attachment 751819

Thank you guys for the information. You’re right, it seems to be not very valuable. I will still try to sell it as it doesn’t run either. We’ve been having an estate sale so I’ll put it up also! Yes it does say $10 under closer inspection. Thank you all. If you were to sell it, what would you?

 

[Yebojoe]

The price of the grade No. 1 movement was $10.00, not $20.00. It sounds like you tried to 'blow-up' the thumbnail image instead of right-clicking on it and choosing to open it a new tab or new window. Please try again.


View attachment 751812 View attachment 751813


Your Watch Case is gold-filled and was made by Joseph Fahys & Co.

View attachment 751814 View attachment 751815 View attachment 751816 View attachment 751817 View attachment 751818 View attachment 751819

Can I ask, why does the number on the case lookup a different watch?

 

[MrRoundel]

Can I ask, why does the number on the case lookup a different watch?

Well, put simply, the case is the case, and the movement is the movement. They are two separate things. While a lot of higher grade watches, Swiss mostly, will have matching serial numbers on the movement and case, it is the exception rather than the rule. In America, even when factory cased pocket watches were provided to the retailer, they rarely had matching serial numbers.

Your case was made by the Fahy's Watch Case Co. Your movement was made by Waltham. They are different entities that did not coordinate so closely that they would match serial numbers to particular movements. And while there are exceptions, I believe they a rare outside of the above-mentioned higher grade Swiss watches, and the even more rare exception in American watches. Good luck with your sale.

 

[Kent]

Can I ask, why does the number on the case lookup a different watch?

The difference (particularly the case being chosen apart from the movement) is discussed in the Watch Case Encyclopedia article (also linked to in my earlier.posts).