Waltham pocket watch for Mexico.

jjea

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Mar 17, 2009
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I found this watch here in México, I have not found information about Diener and Rothacker. Do you know where I can found information about retailers of Waltham? Information you can give me about this watch should be welcome. Thank you

Javier
 

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Kent

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Re: Waltham pocket watch for México.

Hi Javier:

You have a very nice watch!

I don't know where you can find information about Waltham retailers in general, other than to google specific retailer names and see if anything comes up.

Checking the references listed in the Waltham watches Encyclopedia article (and just looking at your fine picture), Waltham movement serial number 3185394 can be seen to be an 18-szie, model 1883, 15-jewel, hunting movement, based upon the factory grade No. 25, and built in about 1887 (give or take a year or two). If the private label watch is of an equal, or better grade, it is a good quality movement. You can see a catalog description of the grade No. 25, and where it fit in Waltham's line of 18-size watches, in the 1887 (Updated to 1889) S.F. Myers Catalog {choose the "Huge (309K)" image}.

The case was also made by Waltham and, being of solid gold, is the major part of the monetary value of the watch.

Good luck,
 
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Larry Treiman

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Re: Waltham pocket watch for México.

Hola, Javier,

[EDIT] I see that, as usual, Kent posted while I was plodding along on the keyboard. Asi es la vida.

Starting in the mid-1960s and for about 20 yeaqrs I used to travel to Mexico from Southern California by train, usually to Mexico, D.F. and sometimes as far as Veracruz. I looked for watches whenever I could, but didn't find much to buy. I enjoyed wandering around looking for old watch shops on side streets, and also visited the usual markets back then, like Lagunilla and Tepito, and of course the Nacional Monte de Piedad (national pawn shop).

One time in an old watchmaker supply shop on a side street I found some never-used Waltham dials made for Diener & Rothacker. Although they were not a very useful size, they were interesting and I bought a few; they were not expensive, and maybe I should have bought a few more. Over the years I have seen a number of other Waltham watches made for Diener & Rothacker. I have also seen some watches marked for Diener Hnos. (abbreviation of Hermanos, like Bros.) which I suspect is the same company but at a different time in their history.

Your watch is a nice example of a Waltham, 18-size, 1883-model, 15-jewel, grade 25 hunting-case movement, but with special markings on the movement, as ordered by Diener & Rothacker. The movement was probably made in about 1886.

Since I didn't have any of the watches, I never studied the firm and I am not even sure if they are still in business., or if they were in business when I was in Mexico City. I was told by someone that they were a large and prestigious retail jeweler, and I think I even saw some advertising for them, but I regret that I don't know more.

I used to go to ride the Mexican trains and the old "tranvias" (trolley cars) in Veracruz and the Capital. Since the passenger trains are almost all gone, and the tramways of Veracruz are gone and what remained of those of Mexico City have been modernized beyond recognition into "light rail," I haven't been back to Mexico in over 25 years!

Larry
 
Last edited:

jjea

Registered User
Mar 17, 2009
261
13
18
Re: Waltham pocket watch for México.

Hola, Javier,

[EDIT] I see that, as usual, Kent posted while I was plodding along on the keyboard. Asi es la vida.

Starting in the mid-1960s and for about 20 yeaqrs I used to travel to Mexico from Southern California by train, usually to Mexico, D.F. and sometimes as far as Veracruz. I looked for watches whenever I could, but didn't find much to buy. I enjoyed wandering around looking for old watch shops on side streets, and also visited the usual markets back then, like Lagunilla and Tepito, and of course the Nacional Monte de Piedad (national pawn shop).

One time in an old watchmaker supply shop on a side street I found some never-used Waltham dials made for Diener & Rothacker. Although they were not a very useful size, they were interesting and I bought a few; they were not expensive, and maybe I should have bought a few more. Over the years I have seen a number of other Waltham watches made for Diener & Rothacker. I have also seen some watches marked for Diener Hnos. (abbreviation of Hermanos, like Bros.) which I suspect is the same company but at a different time in their history.

Your watch is a nice example of a Waltham, 18-size, 1883-model, 15-jewel, grade 25 hunting-case movement, but with special markings on the movement, as ordered by Diener & Rothacker. The movement was probably made in about 1886.

Since I didn't have any of the watches, I never studied the firm and I am not even sure if they are still in business., or if they were in business when I was in Mexico City. I was told by someone that they were a large and prestigious retail jeweler, and I think I even saw some advertising for them, but I regret that I don't know more.

I used to go to ride the Mexican trains and the old "tranvias" (trolley cars) in Veracruz and the Capital. Since the passenger trains are almost all gone, and the tramways of Veracruz are gone and what remained of those of Mexico City have been modernized beyond recognition into "light rail," I haven't been back to Mexico in over 25 years!

Larry
From your message I realize that you learn some Spanish, I don’t know why you use to come to México in the pas but if you plan to come down again let me be your guide. I just started to buy some pocket watches and nowadays there are not too much pieces (I mean pocket watches for the Mexican market) but a few including haste and Hamilton for the Mexican railroad. Anyway, I am glad to had contact with someone like you interested in pocket watches and reinforce my offer guide you across Mexico City and neighborhood if you decide to come again.
Greetings:)

Javier
-> posts merged by system <-
Hi Javier:

You have a very nice watch!

I don't know where you can find information about Waltham retailers in general, other than to google specific retailer names and see if anything comes up.

Checking the references listed in the Waltham watches Encyclopedia article (and just looking at your fine picture), Waltham movement serial number 3185394 can be seen to be an 18-szie, model 1883, 15-jewel, hunting movement, based upon the factory grade No. 25, and built in about 1887 (give or take a year or two). If the private label watch is of an equal, or better grade, it is a good quality movement. You can see a catalog description of the grade No. 25, and where it fit in Waltham's line of 18-size watches, in the 1887 (Updated to 1889) S.F. Myers Catalog {choose the "Huge (309K)" image}.

The case was also made by Waltham and, being of solid gold, is the major part of the monetary value of the watch.

Good luck,

Thank you Kent,

Javier
 

Larry Treiman

Registered User
Jan 18, 2009
3,290
69
48
So. Calif.
Re: Waltham pocket watch for México.

Thank you, Javier,

for your kind offer to be my guide if I visit Mexico again. However, I have some problems that make it harder for me to run around like I used to, so now I travel closer to home. Besides, I used to come to ride the trains on the various Mexican railroads that used to exist, like the FF.CC. Nacionales de Mexico, the F.C. del Pacifico, etc. Now, since the Government of Mexico privatized the railroads, almost all the passenger trains are gone. The only important one remaining is on the F.C. Chihuahua al Pacifico. The train is called "El Chepe", and runs from Chihuahua to Los Mochis through the Barranca del Cobre region. There might be one or two others for tourists (that was a few years ago, and I don't know what the situation is now), and that is about all that I know of.

I am sad that such fine trains as "El Regiomontano" (Monterrey-Mexico City), and "El Tapatio" (Guadalajara-Mexico City) and are now just memories, along with so many other trains that once served the citizens of Mexico and some tourists like myself. At least I still have the memories and a lot of photos. I am just happy that I got to ride them before they disappeared.

Larry
 
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Jerry Treiman

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Re: Waltham pocket watch for México.

Here are five of the dials that Larry found. The first two are for 18-size models (1883 and earlier) and the last three are for 14-size models (1874 or 1884).
 

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jjea

Registered User
Mar 17, 2009
261
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18
Re: Waltham pocket watch for México.

Here are five of the dials that Larry found. The first two are for 18-size models (1883 and earlier) and the last three are for 14-size models (1874 or 1884).
Thank you very much for the photos thry are great!!!
-> posts merged by system <-
Thank you, Javier,

for your kind offer to be my guide if I visit Mexico again. However, I have some problems that make it harder for me to run around like I used to, so now I travel closer to home. Besides, I used to come to ride the trains on the various Mexican railroads that used to exist, like the FF.CC. Nacionales de Mexico, the F.C. del Pacifico, etc. Now, since the Government of Mexico privatized the railroads, almost all the passenger trains are gone. The only important one remaining is on the F.C. Chihuahua al Pacifico. The train is called "El Chepe", and runs from Chihuahua to Los Mochis through the Barranca del Cobre region. There might be one or two others for tourists (that was a few years ago, and I don't know what the situation is now), and that is about all that I know of.

I am sad that such fine trains as "El Regiomontano" (Monterrey-Mexico City), and "El Tapatio" (Guadalajara-Mexico City) and are now just memories, along with so many other trains that once served the citizens of Mexico and some tourists like myself. At least I still have the memories and a lot of photos. I am just happy that I got to ride them before they disappeared.

Larry
I just knew one train, I don’t know if it has a name but it use to run from Mexico City-Queretaro. I am sure that your experience with mexican trains was exciting.

Regards

Javier
 

dennismonahan

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Feb 16, 2017
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Re: Waltham pocket watch for México.

I was looking for information on a watch I recently acquired and found this old post. The watch I have is a Waltham size 14 model 1884 with the Diener and Rothacker logo on the dial and "El Indicator De Waltham" on the works. Anyone with any info to add?? And I'm not sure how this works but Larry if you see this post I would be interested in one of the NOS dials you have, as you can see by my photos.
Thanks for any info Dennis 315057.jpg 315058.jpg 315059.jpg 315060.jpg

- - - Updated - - -

I was looking for information on a watch I recently acquired and found this old post. The watch I have is a Waltham size 14 model 1884 with the Diener and Rothacker logo on the dial and "El Indicator De Waltham" on the works. Anyone with any info to add?? And I'm not sure how this works but Larry if you see this post I would be interested in one of the NOS dials you have, as you can see by my photos.
Thanks for any info Dennis 315057.jpg 315058.jpg 315059.jpg 315060.jpg
 

Jerry Treiman

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Re: Waltham pocket watch for México.

Unfortunately, Larry's 14-size dials are all for hunting case movements and will not fit your open-face movement. Yours is still a great movement and your dial can be patched (not restored) in a manner that will look much better. I usually use white dial-repair wax for this type of damage and it makes a tremendous improvement in appearance.
 

Steven Thornberry

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Re: Waltham pocket watch for México.

I know this thread is mostly 6 years old, but this website provides a bit of history on Diener & Rothacker. Google searched diener rothacker mexico. Just FWIW.
 

Steven Thornberry

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Steven Thornberry

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dennismonahan

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Re: Waltham pocket watch for México.

as usual thanks for the info!!
 
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Jeff Hess

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Re: Waltham pocket watch for México.

awesome thread!
 
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