Waltham original gear cutter, thread cutter, lathe...

[Colin Drake]

My most recent Ebay purchase, this is an industrial grade machine, built for the Waltham factory back in the forties. It is a lathe, a gear cutter, and a thread cutter. It has three motors, a number of cutters, and the original manuals. It also runs on an ordinary outlet, which is convenient. (picks are from ebay, I don't actually have it yet.) I intend to fully restore it, to the best of my abilities, although I do believe that it is in working order. This is my first big step in preparation for building my own clocks.
Just think, before I found this, I had plans of modding my unimat into a gear cutting machine, as well as making my own cutters. Then, I am paying a bunch of money on a machine I intend to tear down and build back up again. I"m torn as to which would have been better.





http://www.ebay.com/itm/321796669400?_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT
I'll update when it arrives, and I'll try and document the restoration.

 

[topspy]

Holy cow! How did I miss this? Was it in the watch tool category?

 

[David S]

Awesome find. Looks like a lot of stuff for six hundred bux. Can't wait to see it making chips.

David

 

[D Magner]

Very Nice! What a steal!
You are going to need a large oiling can.

 

[Colin Drake]

Holy cow! How did I miss this? Was it in the watch tool category?

The guy listed it as a thread mill, fortunately. I actually just clicked on it because I was wondering why a clockmaker would need an industrial thread mill. I then realized what it was, and then proceeded to bid on it without realizing that it was local pickup only. The guy was nice though. He says he'll crate it for an extra two hundred, and then it'll cost me a full grand just to ship it. Even with all this in mind, the ability to make custom clock gears will pay for everything many times over.

I was not sure that I would be able to top my last big purchase, a Bergeon/Seitz hybrid staking set.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Bergeon-Sei...QQVzIkaKjrYw8ZeZUEKCQ%3D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc

Yes, I spent 1200 on a staking set. Between the time of an eBay purchase and the time the item arrives on your doorstep, there is a nice little period of time reserved for reflection and contemplation. During this time, I went through all the stages of grief. And then it arrived, and believe it or not, it was worth every penny.

 

[sharukh]

That is a super catch. I envy you.

Please keep us updated on your progress.

Sharukh

 

[wefalck]

One should have the workshop space ...

 

[Colin Drake]

Well... This machine does not cut gears. Those things that look like gear cutters are for cutting threads, apparently. It is from Waltham Machine co., not the watch company, and the clock maker it was previously owned by used it... for thread cutting. In fact, no where in the listing were the words "gear cutter" ever even used. Apparently I made that up after I saw what I thought were gear cutting attachments, and to top it all off, it has a short somewhere.

This is why it pays to think things through.

 

[wefalck]

Actually, I think the machine could be used to cut gears as well. The cutting head is inclineable - check, if it can be turned to vertical. Then one needs to disconnect the main spindle from the carriage drive, which is easy, as it seems to be driven through change-wheels. You then need to have an indent that locks the main spindle. With the large number of change-wheels you can probably set up for many different numbers of teeth as you want. One may need replace the three-jaw chuck with a collet system for better concentricity, but this is easy. Depending on how much the slide with the cutting head moves in and out, it seems that you have quite a big capacity for cutting even large clock-wheels.

What is not clear to me, however, is how the cutting-head can be raised and lowered, so that the cutter can be centred with respect to the axis of the main spindle.

 

[Colin Drake]

I thought about that. The cutter is only adjustable to 45 degrees, but I could get around that by removing an inch of the platform under it, allowing it to be turned past it's limit. There are two main problems, the first, as you mentioned, there is no control to raise or lower the cutter, it is in a fixed position. Second, the control to move the cutter back and fourth was not designed to be used frequently. It is all the way on the left side, away from the other controls. It is operated by crank, and moves really slow. Unfortunately, I may have to let it go.

 

[Jim DuBois]

Well... This machine does not cut gears. Those things that look like gear cutters are for cutting threads, apparently. It is from Waltham Machine co., not the watch company, and the clock maker it was previously owned by used it... for thread cutting. In fact, no where in the listing were the words "gear cutter" ever even used. Apparently I made that up after I saw what I thought were gear cutting attachments, and to top it all off, it has a short somewhere. This is why it pays to think things through.

Colin, very sorry to hear of this situation. Unfortunately, I have had similar experiences when I have purchased equipment of the various clock and watch manufacture's. Seldom do they lend themselves to the type of work you or I might wish to do. They are generally production machines, designed to do one thing in usually one size, one tooth count, and to do it very well thousands of times. You or I want one off's, or a very limited quantity, in a very wide range of tooth counts and sizes. Another issue with these machines is the propensity to use unusual sized collets or collets made by the company themselves, or collets made by elves on dark moonless nights, and priced accordingly, or simply not available at all...since you are interested in making wheels and pinions and doing similar work I may have some ideas worth sharing with you. Drop me a PM with your email address and I would be happy to send some ideas your way...

 

[Colin Drake]

The Waltham machines were actually surprisingly versatile. I did some research, and they actually made machines that were meant to suit the needs of most any factory. So, my threat cutter can be set up to cut almost any type of thread, even threads that run in the opposite direction. However, it can't really do any more than that. Their gear cutter can cut both gears and pinions of almost any size, however, like the thread cutter, it does not hold a graver, and it can't really be used for much more than that. The major downside to them is that, like you said, they were designed to do a single thing over and over, so I doubt that they would be entirely suitable for making a few custom parts at a time. the setup would be much too difficult.

I'd love to talk by the way.

 

[wefalck]

This is a problem we are facing in the second (or third, or fourth) hand market today: these production machines seem to appear much more frequently than machines used in the toolroom department. For instance, when you see one of the nice Hauser or Dixi millers it is usually the lever variety and not the one with screws on the slides. They were meant to be set up for a particular operation to be repeated umpteen times.

 

[Jim DuBois]

This is a problem we are facing in the second (or third, or fourth) hand market today: these production machines seem to appear much more frequently than machines used in the toolroom department. For instance, when you see one of the nice Hauser or Dixi millers it is usually the lever variety and not the one with screws on the slides. They were meant to be set up for a particular operation to be repeated umpteen times.

I lived a few miles form Waltham's factory for a number of years. I bought a fair number of machines from storage or from others who had stuff in their basements or barns. I liked the quality, I likes the precision, I liked the prices, but ultimately they were generally expensive boat anchors per what has been said above.

The attached photos are a few of the items that I have had that came out of Waltham, E Howard, Elgin, Boliva, and similar factories. I have had a lot more than is seen in the photos. I kept none of it ultimately. On occasion some of the equipment was worn out, but in most cases it was fine. The issues lie precisely in what we have been discussing, what ever the machine, it needs to be adaptable easily to what we need to do. Accessories such as collets need to be commonly available at reasonable prices. Personally, I now stay away from flat belt drives. I have had both pinion and wheel cutting machines from Waltham. They were from their watch / small clocks departments. The range of sizes that could be made was quite limited if not in diameters then certainly in lengths of cuts and so forth. Time to change from one size to another was long, required partial machine disassemble to change latch plates, then a number of test cuts to get everything on center and of the right depths and the like. Many of the machines I have owned did not have precision dials on the various axis as they were set up once and never changed after they went into production. If doing production we can spend a half day setting up a machine properly, if we are doing one off work, the time alone becomes an obstacle. Neat machines, but I have bought my last one of them...

Oh by the way, a couple of the machines pictured did come out of tool rooms rather than production, but between weird collets, flat belt drives, non ball bearing heads, etc....they moved on down the road too.

 

[topspy]

Wish I'd been around when you sold that rose engine!

 

[Jim DuBois]

Wish I'd been around when you sold that rose engine!

There were 3 Rose engines, all out of E Howard and Company, that I located south of Houston 20 years ago. As you can see they were just rusting away and deserved to be saved. They went to David Lindow, who restored 2 of them and I believe the 3rd went to Switzerland where it was also restored. Since then David has gone into the business of making and selling rose engines along with the fine reproduction clock movements he makes. I think if you should google "Lindow and White" you will find a lot on Rose engines as well as see the engines they are making. Interesting stuff....also, some photos of some of their work done on the engines.

 

[Jim DuBois]

Here are photos of a couple of 10mm Derbyshire Micro Mills, pretty much great little machines for making small clock and watch parts, Note the horizontal mill has a lathe bed attached for indexing wheel and pinion blanks. The level action is great for wheel cutting, a bit more problematic for pinions....while this was a conventional 8mm lathe Derbyshire also sold similar fixtures for wheel cutting....