Waltham/Howard - opinions?

Discussion in 'American Pocket Watches' started by Junkhunter, Jul 18, 2011.

  1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.
  1. Junkhunter

    Junkhunter Registered User

    Feb 10, 2002
    97
    0
    0
    Just came across this 12 size Waltham/Howard with a number of unusual features and was hoping for some productive comments.

    It's 19 jewels, steel escape wheel, gold center wheel, double roller. The serial number is 1030121. Parallel bar damaskeening except on the train bridge, where there is a semi-circular section milled out, with 'E Howard Co. Boston" engraved. Note that there is no provision for the usual whiplash regulator. Each component carries the s/n 630121, except the balance which is 1034121. 'Howard" has been ground off of the dial, except the H!

    The case is what seems to be the original Cresent 25 year GF - exactly like the later Howards, but without the company logo on the dust cover.

    Questions - why the mis-matched serial numbers? Why the milled-out area on the train bridge? Why a plain regulator? How many of these were made for Keystone? Insight is appreciated!
     

    Attached Files:

  2. Junkhunter

    Junkhunter Registered User

    Feb 10, 2002
    97
    0
    0
    Any chance the Waltham s/n is 12630121? This is listed as a 19J 1894 model...
     
  3. Nigel Harrison

    Nigel Harrison Registered User

    Oct 30, 2005
    771
    95
    28
    Male
    Brisbane, Australia
    Country Flag:
    Region Flag:
    Hello,

    You will find these Waltham Howards in various states of finish and movement labelling as E.Howard used some and returned some to Waltham I believe.

    Have a look at this great website from Tom McIntyre. You can answer some of your questions from the examples on the Howard page:

    http://www.awco.org/EHowardWatch/index.htm

    There is a watch near identical to yours on Tom's site.

    I had a 16s 23 Jewel Bridge model once, it had all of it's E.howard labelling removed from the dial and movement and actually had no Waltham labelling as well. The bridges were a slightly different shape. It is posted up on this site..somewhere. :)

    They are very cool watches that you don't see too often. Each one seems to tell a story as they can be finished differently form each other.


    Yes you are right about the watch coming from the 12 million range from Waltham.
     
  4. Junkhunter

    Junkhunter Registered User

    Feb 10, 2002
    97
    0
    0
    Thanks Nigel. I saw the watches on Tom's site before (been lurking around since the dawn of the internet:cool:) but never had one apart to examine. It is cool to see so much variation on an American watch, and the hasty finish details on a watch that was to be marketed as a sort of "premium" product is fascinating to me; the finish on the underside of the train bridge is nicer than that on top!
     
  5. Jerry Treiman

    Jerry Treiman Registered User
    NAWCC Member

    Aug 25, 2000
    5,997
    850
    113
    Geologist - California Geological Survey
    Los Angeles, CA
    Country Flag:
    Region Flag:
    What a great find! This is one of only a few examples I have seen from this specific production run. In the final watch order with Keystone, Waltham appears to have set aside or designated production runs for Keystone at 5,000 number intervals within the 12-millions. Initially die-stampeded with the Howard company name and a modified serial number for Howard, many later had the name removed (and in some examples, like yours, re-engraved by hand). 12,600,xxx and 12,605,xxx were 16-size 23j bridge models (hunting and open-face) and had visible Howard serial numbers in the corresponding 1-millions (subtituting "10_" for the initial "126_"). 12,610,xxx and 12,615,xxx were 16-size 19j 3/4-plate movements. 12,620,xxx and 12,625,xxx appear to be 12-size 21j bridge models (all known examples have the name removed). 12,630,xxx and 12,635,xxx included 12-size 19j 3/4-plate movements (none known with the original die-stamped Howard name). Among these last, some like yours had the name removed and some apparently were never even delivered to Keystone and were finished as Riverside-grade movements with normal Waltham serial numbers (see this thread - https://mb.nawcc.org/showthread.php?t=70277 ). Since the number on the balance was hand-inscribed I suspect a stray mark or error is responsible for the number you see. It should be 1,030,xxx.

    Some of this is in a short research note I published in the June 1998 Bulletin, although I now have more complete information and am preparing the material for publication.
     
  6. Junkhunter

    Junkhunter Registered User

    Feb 10, 2002
    97
    0
    0
    Thank you so much for sharing your knowledge Jerry! The linked thread seems to indicate that the typical 19J Riverside would have had a jeweled mainwheel, while my watch has cap jewels on the escape wheel - is this unusual?

    Thanks in advance for helping me understand this watch!
     
  7. Jerry Treiman

    Jerry Treiman Registered User
    NAWCC Member

    Aug 25, 2000
    5,997
    850
    113
    Geologist - California Geological Survey
    Los Angeles, CA
    Country Flag:
    Region Flag:
    When Waltham introduced the 12-size Riverside it initially had 17 jewels. When they first introduced the 19-jewel model it had capped pivots on the escape wheel. Around 1901-1903, when they introduced the jeweled mainwheel they substituted that for the cap jewels at the escape wheel. However, it appears that Keystone must have decided that they wanted the capped escape wheel rather than the jeweled mainwheel in their 19-jewel movements. It was the same on the 16-size 3/4-plate 19j model.
     
  8. Jerry Treiman

    Jerry Treiman Registered User
    NAWCC Member

    Aug 25, 2000
    5,997
    850
    113
    Geologist - California Geological Survey
    Los Angeles, CA
    Country Flag:
    Region Flag:
    Here is a rough example that I just acquired (on the right). I show it alongside an even rougher partial movement that I have had for about 40 years. Note the serial numbers. :)
     

Share This Page