Waltham grade 620

[heifetz17]

Hey guys, I have a 1915 model 1908 with a grade 620 movement that I believe has a broken mainspring and is missing the set lever. The pocket watch database says this is a pendant set but it’s clearly not. My questions are:

Where should the set lever go? Does it go behind the dial? Where can I get a replacement?

The database shows several different mainsprings for this movement. Can someone help me identify the correct one I need?

 

[Bila]

Hi,

This is a pendant set watch, not lever set, so you will not need to replace a lever. The mainspring you want is a #2227, I would go for the stronger strength being only a 15 Jewel watch

 

[NC Plumber]

Your case could be used for a lever set movement, that's the reason for the notch.
Daveswatchparts.com is a good place to get mainsprings.

 

[heifetz17]

Thanks guys, I’ll get the spring ordered.

If it’s actually pendant set, why won’t the crown pull out? When I remove the movement the stem is only a small square piece that slips into the movement. There’s no screw or anything holding the stem into the movement.

 

[heifetz17]

Ok here are a couple more photos. Any help with diagnosing the crown and setting mechanism will be greatly appreciated. The crown does not move up or down at all.

 

[NC Plumber]

I think that if you were to pull on the crown with a bit more strength , it would pull out to the setting position.

 

[heifetz17]

Ok I was finally able to pull the crown out with some brute strength but it still doesn’t set the time. Even with the crown pulled out it winds the mainspring.

 

[richiec]

Maybe the movement needs a little cleaning and oiling? You may have to disassemble the watch to examine the setting parts closely.

 

[Bila]

Even with the crown pulled out it winds the mainspring.

Possibly needs the pendent sleeve inside the case adjusted, a close inspection will tell you, also as previously suggested a clean & oil would be the first steps

 

[heifetz17]

Ok thanks guys. I’ll have the movement apart anyway when I replace the mainspring so I’ll see if the problem continues upon reassembly.

 

[viclip]

I'd carefully check the sleeve within the pendant, for bent or broken "fingers". That can interfere with the ability of the stem to be pulled up esp. if a broken finger jams up the stem. Also check for a rusty stem.

While the sleeve is also out of adjustment, I'm not sure that that explains the amount of force needed to pull out the crown. The stem simply sits within a female square atop the movement & should come out without great effort unless it's rusted therein or within the sleeve, or unless there's a broken or bent sleeve finger.

That's my experience anyways.

 

[heifetz17]

That's part of my confusion, though admittedly I'm not super familiar with the setting mechanism on pocket watches. As you say, the stem simply sits in a female square on the top of the movement. I don't see how simply moving up and down changes anything within the mechanism to set the hands. The stem does move up and down with the crown, but nothing moves within the mechanism in the movement so it's still engaged with the crown wheel/mainspring.

 

[Skutt50]

The stem does move up and down with the crown, but nothing moves within the mechanism in the movement so it's still engaged with the crown wheel/mainspring.

There should be "things" moving within the movement or something is wrong. I think you will get the answer to how this works when you take the movement apart.

 

[heifetz17]

There should be "things" moving within the movement or something is wrong. I think you will get the answer to how this works when you take the movement apart.

I think you’re right, and maybe it’s as simple as they movement just being gummed up and stuck.

 

[Jerry Treiman]

That's part of my confusion, though admittedly I'm not super familiar with the setting mechanism on pocket watches. As you say, the stem simply sits in a female square on the top of the movement. I don't see how simply moving up and down changes anything within the mechanism to set the hands. The stem does move up and down with the crown, but nothing moves within the mechanism in the movement so it's still engaged with the crown wheel/mainspring.

Most non-lever-set American watches from this time frame are what is called "negative setting", as opposed to the "positive setting" mechanism on most Swiss watches and most later wristwatches. The natural state of a negative setting movement is in the time setting mode. The stem in the case (or a bench key) must press into the winding pinion, depressing an internal pin, to move the internal mechanism into the winding mode. Here is an illustration of the typical Waltham winding/setting mechanism which is under the barrel bridge. Be careful of the small spring in there as they are notorious for jumping into another dimension. If your spring is missing or broken that could be the source of your problem. Gummy oil can also be a problem.

 

[heifetz17]

Jerry thank you so much! I looked at the watch again with that diagram and the arm near E was not in that groove but rather by the teeth resting against B. I repositioned it into the groove and voila! I have a setting position when I pull the crown out!

 

[heifetz17]

I’m at a loss for watch! The setting mechanism stopped working again and the arm keeps popping out of the groove. The arm is secured around a screw under the retaining plate so there isn’t any adjustment that I can see. Is it possibly worn too short so that it keeps popping out of the groove?

 

[Appa69]

You're talking about here? It does seem rather short to me...

You're sure everything is in correctly and fastened tightly?

 

[Jerry Treiman]

It looks like the clutch is too far over to the left, i.e. not centered in the cutout in the plate. That could cause the shipper lever to not engage the "groove" deeply enough. Is the tip of the winding/setting arbor properly seated in the winding arbor bearing? Is the bearing rotated out of alignment?

 

[heifetz17]

Yep everything is properly fastened. I’ll double check the bearing. I thought it looked in place but perhaps it’s shifted over a bit.

I can get it back in the groove but once it’s back in the case and I pull and push the crown a few times it pops right back out.

 

[K03045]

Is it me or does his click lever not look right! That lever should be applying tension to the keyless works so it won’t jump. Something isn’t correct your keyless works is to spread out with no tension.

 

[K03045]

Here’s a picture of a Waltham 1908 I did a cleaning on a while back, notice the spacing and setting lever.

These are pre cleaning pictures which I take at every step of the removal on unfamiliar watches!

 

[heifetz17]

Jerry hit the nail on the head! The bearing had shifted over to the left a bit and shifted the clutch out of alignment. All is well again!