Waltham 88's show them off

musicguy

Moderator
Staff member
NAWCC Member
Sponsor
Jan 12, 2017
9,964
7,425
113
New York State
Country
I will start with this one ......

This one was gifted to J. Denny 12/25/1899
Waltham Model 1888 AWWC Riverside 17j Hunting case circa 1899
Fahys 925/1000 fine.

a.jpg
b.jpg

c.jpg
d.jpg

h.jpg
e.jpg
j.jpg







Rob
 
Last edited:

musicguy

Moderator
Staff member
NAWCC Member
Sponsor
Jan 12, 2017
9,964
7,425
113
New York State
Country
Ed,

That dial is fantastic


Rob
 

Ethan Lipsig

NAWCC Gold Member
Jan 8, 2006
3,045
4,100
113
73
Pasadena, CA
Country
Region
Ed was too modest to point out that his two AWCO '88s are both 21j versions, which are quite hard to find. Only around 3,000 AWCO '88s were made, mostly in a 19j version (around 2,000 OF and 600 hunters). A small number of 17js reportedly were made, but I have never seen one. 109 OF and 170 hunter 21js reportedly were made. Hence, Ed's AWCOs are scarce watches, and beautiful ones.

So are his Riverside Maximus examples. No one seems to know how many '88 Riverside Maximus were made. I have seen estimates that range from 100 hunters and 200 OF to 1551 of each. One doesn't see them often for sale.

While AWCO had traditionally been Waltham's highest grade watches, some collectors regard the '88 Riverside Maximus to be on a par or even superior to the '88 AWCO.

I have 5 Model 1888s in my collection:

18k 21j AWCO OF in K&B Case
IMG_1968.JPG IMG_1969.JPG IMG_1971.JPG IMG_1972.JPG

14k 19j AWCO Hunter in Robert & Foster Case
IMG_3356.JPG IMG_3354.JPG

18k 19j AWCO OF in Waltham Case
DSC05474.JPG DSC05476.JPG DSC05479.JPG

14k Riverside Maximus OF in AWCCo Case
IMG_4535.JPG IMG_7817_edited.JPG

14k Riverside Maximus Hunter in Hayden Wheeler Case

IMG_3827.JPG IMG_3828.JPG IMG_3787.JPG

14k Am'n Watch Co. Hunter in a Roy Case
Am'n Watch Co. models generally were the next step down in grade from AWCOs. My example is highly unusual in that Pat Caruso, for many years the foreman of Waltham's Experimental Section, installed a Cole's resilient escapement in it.

IMG_2583.JPG IMG_2582.JPG IMG_2586.JPG IMG_2578.JPG
 

Tom McIntyre

Technical Admin
Staff member
NAWCC Star Fellow
NAWCC Ruby Member
Sponsor
Golden Circle
Aug 24, 2000
85,186
2,918
113
86
Boston
awco.org
Country
Region
This is the only 17J American Watch Co. grade I have seen. It's on the AWCo web site under the American Grade collection

1658445219036.png 1658445319784.png
 

musicguy

Moderator
Staff member
NAWCC Member
Sponsor
Jan 12, 2017
9,964
7,425
113
New York State
Country
I like the way they look.

731D1B82-62CE-47DC-9D12-F02053126C85.jpeg




Rob
 
Last edited:

Joe Blossic

Registered User
Sep 6, 2015
230
1,177
93
Country
M88's have mysteriously accumulated here and hadn't really realized it and did not think of myself being a M88 collector.
In order of SN ...
4970165 Royal 15j OF
M88 4970165 C.jpg M88 4970165 D.jpg M88 4970165 M.jpg

5392081 G24 11j HC
M88 5392081 C.jpg M88 5392081 D.jpg M88 5392081 M.jpg

5462789 G24 11j OF
M88 5462789 C.jpg M88 5462789 D.jpg M88 5462789 M.jpg

6500392 AWCo 19j OF - PL Shreve, Crump & Low (Boston)
M88 6500392 D.jpg M88 6500392 M.jpg

65000660 AWCo 19j(? reported) HC
M88 6500660 C1.jpg M88 6500660 C2.jpg M88 6500660 C3.jpg M88 6500660 C4.jpg M88 6500660 D.jpg M88 6500660 M.jpg

6500679 AWCo 19j(? reported) HC
M88 6500679 C1.jpg M88 6500679 C2.jpg M88 6500679 C3.jpg M88 6500679 D.jpg M88 6500679 M.jpg

6557173 Riverside 17j HC
M88 6557173 C.jpg M88 6557173 D.jpg M88 6557173 M.jpg

7000112 Riverside Maximus 21j HC
M88 7000112 D.jpg M88 7000112 M.jpg

7497217 G640 17j HC
M88 7497217 C.jpg M88 7497217 D.jpg M88 7497217 M.jpg

7552426 G650 17j OF
M88 7552426 C.jpg M88 7552426 D.jpg M88 7552426 M.jpg

9525889 Riverside 17j OF - matching certificate
M88 9525889 C1.jpg M88 9525889 C2.jpg M88 9525889 D.jpg M88 9525889 M.jpg
 

Jerry Treiman

NAWCC Member
Golden Circle
Aug 25, 2000
7,311
5,018
113
Los Angeles, CA
Country
Region
This is my favorite '88 in my collection. According to the serial number it should be a humble 15-jewel grade no.28 but one look at the movement and dial and you know it is something more. It is marked as an "Am'n Watch Co." grade, not a bad movement in itself, but it has additional finishing characteristics more typical of the "American Watch Co." grade, such as the damaskeening, red ruby jewels in rose gold settings and specially finished winding wheels. It has a fine single-sunk glass enamel dial and fleur-de-lis hands. It is in its original plain-polished Crescent Watch Case Co. rose-gold filled case.
I have always suspected that this may be an "employee special", finished by a worker on his own time, but I note that in the Pocket Watch Database it is the only reported example from the first half of a run of 1,000 No.28 movements and perhaps Waltham actually did finish a couple hundred of these as Am'n grade movements.
(the last photo is a grade No.28, for comparison)
6560271_front.jpg 6560271_oblique.jpg 8980747m.jpg
 

Jerry Freedman

NAWCC Star Fellow
NAWCC Member
Sep 16, 2000
708
29
28
Country
Region
This is my favorite '88 in my collection. According to the serial number it should be a humble 15-jewel grade no.28 but one look at the movement and dial and you know it is something more. It is marked as an "Am'n Watch Co." grade, not a bad movement in itself, but it has additional finishing characteristics more typical of the "American Watch Co." grade, such as the damaskeening, red ruby jewels in rose gold settings and specially finished winding wheels. It has a fine single-sunk glass enamel dial and fleur-de-lis hands. It is in its original plain-polished Crescent Watch Case Co. rose-gold filled case.
I have always suspected that this may be an "employee special", finished by a worker on his own time, but I note that in the Pocket Watch Database it is the only reported example from the first half of a run of 1,000 No.28 movements and perhaps Waltham actually did finish a couple hundred of these as Am'n grade movements.
(the last photo is a grade No.28, for comparison)
View attachment 717655 View attachment 717656 View attachment 717657
My model 88 is #4145011.The old Ehrhardt book shows 15-16 jewels ,and Riverside/Amn W. CO. The movement
is marked Amn. How many jewel is it?
 

Tom McIntyre

Technical Admin
Staff member
NAWCC Star Fellow
NAWCC Ruby Member
Sponsor
Golden Circle
Aug 24, 2000
85,186
2,918
113
86
Boston
awco.org
Country
Region
My model 88 is #4145011.The old Ehrhardt book shows 15-16 jewels ,and Riverside/Amn W. CO. The movement
is marked Amn. How many jewel is it?
It should be 16 jewels with no center jewel under the dial. It was made in 1890 Nawccinfo
 

Clint Geller

Gibbs Literary Award
NAWCC Star Fellow
NAWCC Member
Donor
Jul 12, 2002
2,960
3,666
113
68
Pittsburgh, PA
clintgeller.com
Country
Region
My two 88's:

The first is a 19 jewel AWCo Grade hunting case example marked "NONMAGNETIC" with rectilinear damaskeening, and with a possibly unique double sunk glass enamel AWWCo dial with blue radial hours. It is in a heavy 14K Robert & Foster case.

The second is a 21 jewel open face AWCo Grade example in a heavy 18K "Waltham" case.

DSC_1231 .JPG NEWDIA~1.JPG 14KR&F~1.JPG 14KR&F~2.JPG 21J M88 movt close-up.JPG dial pik 2 - better.jpg case - cell pik.jpg case edge.JPG interior rear lid.jpg
 
Last edited:

topspin

Registered User
Dec 14, 2014
1,699
571
113
Country
Region
Since most of what we have in this thread so far is at the high end, I decided to use the occasion of my (first) contribution to balance it out a little.




Edit: There is also an interesting, middling sort of grade, Cronometro Victoria. A brief search didn't find a photo of one of my own, but here's a thread with a couple of examples anyway.
 
Last edited:

Tom McIntyre

Technical Admin
Staff member
NAWCC Star Fellow
NAWCC Ruby Member
Sponsor
Golden Circle
Aug 24, 2000
85,186
2,918
113
86
Boston
awco.org
Country
Region
I had forgotten about the Fogel watches. Here is a decent example that has a particularly nice case.
1658519118784.png 1658519257596.png
1658519052145.png 1658519155310.png 1658519216088.png 1658519086813.png
 

Jerry Treiman

NAWCC Member
Golden Circle
Aug 25, 2000
7,311
5,018
113
Los Angeles, CA
Country
Region
My model 88 is #4145011.The old Ehrhardt book shows 15-16 jewels ,and Riverside/Amn W. CO. The movement
is marked Amn. How many jewel is it?
Jerry - your watch is from the same run as mine: 4,145,001 - 4,145,100. Both are listed as "Am'n Watch Co." grade and should have 16 jewels. Ours are probably very similar except for perhaps damaskeen pattern and that 10 movements in this run (-081 to -090) are non-magnetic with double-roller escapement. Mine is 4,145,086. Can you post a picture of your movement?
4145086m.jpg
 

Jerry Treiman

NAWCC Member
Golden Circle
Aug 25, 2000
7,311
5,018
113
Los Angeles, CA
Country
Region
Since most of what we have in this thread so far is at the high end, I decided to use the occasion of my (first) contribution to balance it out a little.
Thanks for the reminder that there are interesting models across the spectrum. I really liked your nickel striped model.
Here is my contribution in this category - #8,928,882 is an 11-jewel Export model in an English sterling case with 1899 Birmingham hallmark (A.B. sponsor).
8928882ms.jpg 8928882s.jpg 8928882_ib.jpg
 

Jerry Treiman

NAWCC Member
Golden Circle
Aug 25, 2000
7,311
5,018
113
Los Angeles, CA
Country
Region
This is another of my favorites. Certainly more modest than the top grades, but #3,574,626 is from the first production of the 1888 model in the Riverside grade, in its original silver A.W.W.Co. case (case serial no.52). These earliest '88 model movements used a different barrel that is similar to a hanging barrel, with no lower arbor pivot, and also has a train bridge that covers a bit more of the center wheel. It is also non-magnetic.
3574626_fobl2.jpg 3574626mud.jpg
 

topspin

Registered User
Dec 14, 2014
1,699
571
113
Country
Region
We should also mention the Private Labels. These, too, have plenty of variety. For example...

A Schierwater -

3 people's Fattorinis -

And of course tons of other beauties, e.g. -

Incidentally.
The lookup http://nawccinfo.nawcc.org/LookupSN.php tells us there should be 59370 model 1888 "Bond St" grade out there somewhere, which easily makes it a common watch. Kudos points to the first person who can either post a picture of one that is actually stamped "Bond St", or explain why I've never seen a stamped example?
 

mikeh

Registered User
Mar 5, 2001
1,295
63
48
Here is another example from the first Riverside run and only 11 later than Jerry’s example in post #20 above. The winding wheels were a first for me - lightly decorated over the radial pattern normally associated with American grade.

F4A892E3-6BED-4530-A9AD-51E0E88E04D8.jpeg
 

Forum statistics

Threads
177,503
Messages
1,555,588
Members
53,592
Latest member
AndyB821
Encyclopedia Pages
909
Total wiki contributions
3,053
Last edit
Ptolemy's Course of the Planets displayed by CLockwork by Tom McIntyre