Waltham 3 size like model 1890?

Discussion in 'American Pocket Watches' started by artbissell, Aug 10, 2017.

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  1. artbissell

    artbissell Registered User
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    #1 artbissell, Aug 10, 2017
    Last edited: Aug 10, 2017
  2. Tom McIntyre

    Tom McIntyre Technical Admin
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    Did you measure the dial or the back?
     
  3. artbissell

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    #3 artbissell, Aug 11, 2017
    Last edited: Aug 11, 2017
    only the back. The case has a thick rim but is smaller than usual 6 size prompting my inside diameter measurement. art
     
  4. artbissell

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  5. richiec

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    the handwritten records definitely show this as a 6 size, 17 jewel S grade made around 1891. Only way to know for sure would be to measure with the movement out of the case and get an exact measurement of the pillar plate.
     
  6. artbissell

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    Yes. The case is much too small for the 6 size. art
     
  7. Jerry Treiman

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    Since we usually don't violate the laws of physics I suspect there has been a measurement error. The Grade S movement that Art has shown is a 6-size movement. At first I thought maybe someone had cut it down to a smaller size, but the distance between the dial foot and the edge of the pillar plate (visible in his movement photo) shows a 6-size pillar plate. The case must, likewise, be a 6-size case.
     
  8. artbissell

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    The case inside diameter is 2mm too small for the 6s movement. The disputed 10s Bigelow Colonial of 1908 I thought proved here I knew how to measure movement size. Both watches were from the Bill Tapp carefully selected collection. art
     
  9. richiec

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    Proof is in the watch in your hand, Art. I usually use a movement gauge rather than a ruler or caliper and remove the movement from the case or at least the crystal bezel to get an accurate measurement across the pillar plate rather than the bezel. Could someone have cut this down, maybe, but I have never seen a 3 size case. 3/0 yes, 1 size, yes but not 3.
     
  10. artbissell

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    I believe this 3s (?) gold fill case is original with its movement and will not accomodate a 6s, but is larger than a 0s. The 10s Bigelow Colonial has an adapter ring made by Bill Tapp to fit in a 12s case. Single photo for comparison with 14s Colonial. art

    View attachment 353270
     
  11. Tom McIntyre

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    Art, earlier in the thread you showed one movement in post #1 and a different movement in post #4. You were trying in post 4 to show a normal 6 size and Jerry and RichieC both confirmed that the watch in post #4 is a 6 size. You did not show a picture of the 3 size removed from its case.

    The only 3 size watches Waltham claimed to have made were the single run of 1873 model listed as 3 size. Therefore, if this watch is a 3 size (if Bill told you that I will take it as gospel) then it was an employee special or some other special project.
     
  12. Jerry Treiman

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    #12 Jerry Treiman, Aug 12, 2017
    Last edited: Aug 12, 2017
    Actually, even that was not a 3-size watch. As Irv Goldstein and Jon Weber documented in their excellent Bulletin article - "The Mysteries of the Waltham 1882 Model ..." (October 2007) - this was an error in the records. These were the first run of the 1-size 1882 model.

    [by the way, I measured the back (or top) plates of a standard 6-size movement and got just over 32 mm ... just what Art measured; my pillar plate measures 6-size]
     
  13. artbissell

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    Very much appreciate the patiently explained correction of a stubborn old man's movement size error. I never measured any of 10 I have 5502279 to 9607088. A good example of the quality of the NAWCC members and this forum. art

    View attachment 353322 P1000481a.jpg
     
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