Chronometry: Waltham 1908, 1919, 1941

Discussion in 'Chronometers' started by artbissell, Jan 28, 2017.

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  1. artbissell

    artbissell Registered User
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    The popular 8 day Waltham car and travel clock made a practical and accurate ship's chronometer. Here an early one and a late best travel clock version. The 1919 rating card is for a model 1910 from 1919 not with the 1908. artbissell.

    IMG_3339a.jpg IMG_3341a.jpg IMG_3344a.jpg 1440772657.jpg IMG_3333a.jpg IMG_3326a.jpg
     

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  2. Tom McIntyre

    Tom McIntyre Technical Admin
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    Actually Art, it is the other way about. The 37 size were first Chronometer Watches for rough service and were adapted to all the other clock styles that used them later on. As chronometers, they pre-date the Hamilton 36 size and the Elgin gimbaled deck watches. Like the others they were also furnished in several other case forms including flat cases without gimbals.
     
  3. artbissell

    artbissell Registered User
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    #3 artbissell, Jan 28, 2017
    Last edited: Jan 28, 2017
    Correct me if wrong about 1935 rating card is for a 1919 with serial 2222xxxx. And 16xxxxxx is right for 1908. Was this the only other Premier named Waltham? art
     
  4. Tom McIntyre

    Tom McIntyre Technical Admin
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    By saying the chronometers came first, I meant that the earliest runs of the 37 size were made for chronometer service. They did not stop making chronometers when they began using the movement for other purposes.

    As to the name Premier, it was used on the 1892 model, 1894 model (12 size) and 1908 model. It is not a recorded grade for the 37 size watches but it was used on lots of watches as a dial signature with no particular meaning. One of the 1908 runs recorded is the Premier Maximus and the other is a 15J watch signed Premier. There is another run of Premier Maximus but it is listed as Pre. Max in the gray book, so one needs to broaden the search to find it. It is labeled the same on the movement except it is marked adjusted to 6 positions.

    The new Waltham database shows a total of 19 runs with 7 variants using the grade name Premier.
     
  5. Paul Regan

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    For Art.
     

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  6. artbissell

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    Very nice example of one of the several Premiers and much appreciated explanation of them and the 37. art
     
  7. artbissell

    artbissell Registered User
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    The 1935 dated rating card for the 1919 model 1910 37 seems to indicate fine accuracy. Would model 1910 be superior accuracy to my 1908 older model? art

    1440772657.jpg
     
  8. Tom McIntyre

    Tom McIntyre Technical Admin
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    The first two runs of the 37 size are listed in the gray book as 8 day chronometer. They are described in the later parts lists as model 1910, I think. When we created the Waltham Serial Number Database, that is the model year that was assigned to all of them. It is possible they were made in 1908 and should have that model year, but they are all currently recorded as 1910.

    Jerry T has studied these later pieces more thoroughly than I have. I have focused on the range of products rather than the technical history of the design. This mechanism is far and away the most chameleon of all the Waltham designs.

    I agree that the rating cards are very impressive, but it is important to remember when comparing with other chronometer performance ratings that the others all include temperature compensation testing as well as steadiness of rate. Of course by 1908/10 temperature in a powered craft was probably less of an issue than it had been 30 years earlier.

    Some of the past discussion of these pieces have also focused on the spot wind indicator vs. the dial wind indicator. The thought was that the dial indicator was needed for it to be "chronometer." I do not think Waltham ever made that distinction and the two seem to have been used interchangeably in the early production.
     
  9. artbissell

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    Thanks for making this sloppy posting a good one. art
     
  10. artbissell

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    Black Starr & Frost competitor of the 37 was acquired as silver scrap at local auction. Well protected in bruised and battered big heavy solid silver internally lined travel case. Shown with big 16 size Hamilton. No name good looking working movement in its own sterling case. Age and maker? art

    cc.jpg IMG_4084x.jpg x.jpg IMG_4096c.jpg
     
  11. artbissell

    artbissell Registered User
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    I forgot big silver clock watch I posted 6/2016. Found it is Omega sourced 1917-28. Not rare but few ebay sales have been high $. art
     
  12. myasnik

    myasnik Newbie

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    Hello,
    I need help with the inscription "SID." on the dial of my Waltham 8 day chronometer. Have someone any idea what does it means?
    Thanks in advance.

    Best regards,
    Dmitriy.

    IMG-f363821ce76ab62109d50a95f6be3f57-V.jpg
     
  13. Jerry Treiman

    Jerry Treiman Registered User
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    That might be an abbreviation for Sidereal, indicating that this chronometer was originally adjusted for sidereal time.
     
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  14. Paul Regan

    Paul Regan Registered User
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    I agree with Jerry. I owned a Box chronometer that had that on the dial and it was adjusted to Sidereal time.
    Paul
     
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  15. myasnik

    myasnik Newbie

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    Thanks a lot, Jerry Treiman and Paul Regan!

    After studying the materials on the Internet, I came to the same conclusion.

    Later, in the 1940s, the British Admiralty introduced a Hydrographic Standard system marked H.S.:
    H.S.1 : Chronometer watch with detent escapement
    H.S.2 : Chronometer watch adjusted for isochronism in five positions
    H.S.3 : Deck watch adjusted for isochronism in a minimum of two positions
    H.S.4 : Fleet Air Arm instrument panel watch
    H.S.5 : Survey boat pocket watch
    H.S.6 : Ship's chronometer with gimballed movement
    H.S.7 : Watch calibrated for sidereal time
    H.S.8 : Fleet Air Arm pilot's wristwatch
    H.S.9 : Chronograph wristwatch
    H.S.10 : Diver's wristwatch
    H.S.11 : Standard issue wristwatch
     

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