waltham 1857 ?

Discussion in 'American Pocket Watches' started by amedeus, Apr 21, 2017.

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  1. amedeus

    amedeus New Member

    Apr 21, 2017
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    Hello,

    I just bought from eBay this pocket watch.I was attracted by the small series on the movement ( 5424). On the case is stamped the same number:5424.According to pocketwatchdatabase.com watch was produce in 1857.Can you please tell me if 5424 is the real serial number or it means something else ? Can you please give me any other information about the clock ? Thank you !
     
  2. Jim Haney

    Jim Haney Registered User
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    amedeus,


    No, I am sorry but that is not a Model 1857 Waltham.

    It is most likely English and you can look up the Case by the hallmarks inside the lids.


    Do a search in this forum for Swiss Fakes.
     
  3. rolandantrobus

    rolandantrobus Registered User

    May 17, 2016
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    Case is hallmarked Birmingham 1879.
     
  4. LloydB

    LloydB Registered User

    Feb 24, 2006
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    Apart from the serial number puzzle,
    could it be a model 1877?
     
  5. Tom McIntyre

    Tom McIntyre Technical Admin
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    That is my initial reaction. Without a really close examination, I don't think one can be certain. The A.B sponsor mark on the case would indicate it was made in Dennison's new watch case shop at the time.

    Dennison had brought over some Tremont material, but there is no way he would have access to Waltham 1877 material, so the watch would have been a "private label" for someone in the UK, but it is awfully subtle for that.
     
  6. Bryan Eyring

    Bryan Eyring Registered User
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    Is there anything engraved on the rear lid?
     
  7. topspin

    topspin Registered User

    Dec 14, 2014
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    To me this looks like a model 1876, for example - https://pocketwatchdatabase.com/search/result/waltham/925099

    It's like a "little brother" of a model 1877/1883 keywind. One of the 1876's usual characteristics, is that any attempt to set the time by turning the centre post with a key, just results in the watch ticking with more speed & urgency. This probably doesn't do the watch much good, so do be gentle.

    I could only guess at how this example has finished up with a strange serial number on it.
     
  8. richiec

    richiec Registered User
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    If he measures across the pillar plate we would know if it was 14 size or not.
     
  9. Mark UK

    Mark UK Registered User

    Apr 13, 2015
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    It's too big for an 1876, mine only spans 2 1/2 fingers cased. It looks identical to one of my 1877 keywind... screw locations and orientation, balance, plain balance cock, all except for the markings on barrel bridge.
     
  10. amedeus

    amedeus New Member

    Apr 21, 2017
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    Thanks for all the answers ! I attached some more photos , hope it will help.Unfortunately, the watch does not work,so I can not set the time.Thank you.
     
  11. topspin

    topspin Registered User

    Dec 14, 2014
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    Based on those measurements I'm satisfied that this is an 18s. Likely a model 1877.

    Thank-you for helping me to notice that my micrometer has a little button for switching over to inches!
     
  12. Nick23

    Nick23 Registered User

    Jul 21, 2009
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    I would say that it is an 1877 Model, Home Grade, much the same as this one that dates to January 1880. It is also in an identical Dennison case for the same year 1879/80. This was the first year of the Birmingham assayed A.B (Alfred Bedford) sponsor mark.

    Nick

    [​IMG][​IMG]
     
  13. amedeus

    amedeus New Member

    Apr 21, 2017
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    It was a win win situation :)

    Thank-you for helping me to notice that my micrometer has a little button for switching over to inches![/QUOTE]
     
  14. LloydB

    LloydB Registered User

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    [NOTE: pure speculation, best 'Spock'
    voice] "Is it possible that" Waltham
    shipped one or more "sample" 1877
    movements to Dennison, with no serial
    numbers? Perhaps to establish the
    case requirements?

    Was the puzzling serial number engraved
    in Britain? If so, Amadeus's watch may
    document an 'interesting' moment in
    Waltham history.
     
  15. rolandantrobus

    rolandantrobus Registered User

    May 17, 2016
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    Of course I'd forgotten that the OPs original post shows that the watch and the case have the same number. It's definitely an English case. Anyone got another example of a US movement the same num as an English case?
     
  16. LloydB

    LloydB Registered User

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    Perhaps the owner could, sometime, have a
    watchmaker inspect, under the balance cock.

    It might be illuminating to know if the balance
    cock has the same, or a different serial number?


    Is it possible that there is no number at all?
     
  17. amedeus

    amedeus New Member

    Apr 21, 2017
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    Hello, this picture is helping? It is the only one I received from the watchmaker.I wait for another ones. View attachment 356439
     
  18. ben_hutcherson

    ben_hutcherson Registered User
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    I don't see any photos, but based on the description here I would be highly sceptical of this being anything other than a Swiss fake.
     
  19. Marty101

    Marty101 Registered User
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    Seems like a lot of photos missing on the MB...
     
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