Waltham 10 Ligne Dial Variations

Shawn Moulder

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Just recently going through my watches I noticed my Waltham 10 Ligne watches had all different color dials. Two are Waltham Maximus while the other two are 16 jewels A.W.Co according to the serial numbers. The first A.W.Co dial is black with dot markers while the other is a bright red with dot markers. The first Maximus dial is burgundy while the last one is blue both having straight line markers. Does anyone else have 10 ligne Walthams with different color dials then mine? It would be interesting to see more porcelain dial variations.

20220906_004622.jpg 20220906_004657.jpg 20220906_004720.jpg 20220906_004758.jpg 20220906_004819.jpg 20220906_004839.jpg 20220906_004921.jpg 20220906_004948.jpg 20220906_005007.jpg 20220906_005023.jpg
 

Ethan Lipsig

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Shawn, I don't have any 10-ligne Walthams. I have two even smaller Walthams with movements that look like your 10-lignes, but both are PLs, one a BIgelow Kennard and the other a Matalene-cased Tiffany PL, so they don't count.
 

Shawn Moulder

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Hey Ethan I still would be interested in seeing pictures of them.

Thanks,
Shawn
 

Shawn Moulder

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Hey Jerry love the private label dials especially the gold dot one. Are yours the Maximus grade or the A.W.Co grade?
 

Ethan Lipsig

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Shawn, since you asked to see my smaller-than-10-lignes:

14k & Enamel Bigelow Kennard PL: My notes about this watch may be incorrect since they say that the watch is 20mm in diameter cased, which would mean that the movement was about 7-8 ligne or 15/0 - 14/0, but my notes also say that the movement is a 6/0 "jewel-series" movement on a par with the Maximus or Diamond grades. If the movement is a 6/0, then it would be about an 11-ligne movement. It is worth posting anyway because the dial is similar to the ones already shown in this thread, except that it has "carats" highlighting the hours, not "dots". I will check on the size the next time I visit my watches at my bank.

Blue.jpg IMG_3831.JPG IMG_3802.JPG IMG_3805.JPG

18k Matalene-Cased "Cigar-Cutter" Tiffany PL: I am only showing this watch because you asked to see it, Shawn. It is so different from all the others in this thread that it isn't relevant. My notes describe the movement as a "9-ligne, 17-jewel . . . high grade movement with P-grade material and among the finest in this size. Jerry Treiman, the world's leading Matalene expert, probably gave me that information.

Cigar Cutter.jpg IMG_0132_edited.JPG IMG_0133_edited.JPG IMG_0135.JPG IMG_0136_edited.JPG IMG_0138_edited.JPG IMG_4732.JPG
 

Jerry Treiman

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To clarify the movement sizes 6/0 (or Jewel Series), 10-ligne and 9-ligne, here are some comparative photos.

The prominent visual difference between the similar 6/0 and the 10-ligne movements is the distance of the 3rd wheel arbor (green arrow) from the central edge of the plate. You can also see that the escape, 4th and 3rd wheel arbors on the 10-ligne movement are almost in a straight line.
10L-JS_comp.jpg

The 10-ligne and 9-ligne movement differences are a little more subtle. In fact, both actually measure about 9-1/2 lignes but the 9-ligne is distinctly thinner. I have not made a precise comparison, but it would not surprise me if the wheel layout and spacing are identical between the two. However, because of the difference in thickness most parts are not interchangeable. The most evident visual difference (aside from thickness) is the use of a thick nickel pallet bridge on the 10-ligne and a thin steel pallet bridge on the 9-ligne movement. By the way, the 10-ligne movement has a single-roller escapement whereas the 9-ligne goes the extra mile and has a double-roller escapement!
10L-9L_comp.jpg 10L-9L pallet bridges.jpg
 

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