Wall Clock Winding Problem

[Basalt]

I have a 30 day Daniel Dakota Wall clock and the chime spring interferes with the clock spring after about 2-3 weeks causing the clock to jam, usually at the1 O'clock position. If I wind the chime at 2 weeks this does not happen. Can I fix this? Has this ever happened to anyone else?
I am not a clock guy just a machinist. (I made the pendulum out of a hacksaw blade and a tin can lid and covered it with gold foil from a chocolate bar.)LOL

 

[Vernon]

It sounds as if a post riveted into one of the plates is missing. This post directs the expanding spring out and away from the center so that you don't have the problem that you described.

 

[shutterbug]

Most of the 31 day clocks are Korean products, and have a special mechanism attached to the lower plate to prevent that very problem. I'm guessing that part might have been removed. We will have to see a pic of the movement. It looks like you could remove the hands, and the dial is only held on with small brad nails. Remove that and take a pic of the movement for us - especially the bottom part.

 

[Dick Feldman]

As a word of caution.
Asian made clocks that run 30-31 days are made from substandard material and lack in basic engineering.
The long main springs pack a lot of energy. That, coupled with substandard materials and flaws in construction can make the clock a danger to someone winding the clock.
Many of those clocks have click assemblies that will release the entire force of the spring to the key in less time than it takes to remove one's hand. When that happens the winding key will normally spin wildly and tear flesh from the hand that was trying to wind the clock. The spinning key will draw blood and normally will cause a blue thumbnail.
A poorly designed clock with parts missing in the spring area is an additional reason for caution.
Others may feel different but I recommend you discard that clock.
This board is populated by different levels of repair people and some here will endorse repair of those clocks.
Because of the potential hazard to me as a repair person and to the clock owner, I refuse to work on them.
If you decide to keep and operate the clock, it would do you well to wear heavy leather gloves when winding the clock.
Best Regards,
Dick

 

[eemoore]

First of all, if I may, I agree totally with Mr. Feldman about trying to repair these Korean movements. As an amateur learning clock repairing as a hobby, I had exactly what Mr. Feldman explains, happened to me recently . Fortunately I was not injured. There is a good bet that your clock has one of these movements, so be very careful . However based on what you say, it might be possible to repair the post without taking the movement apart. ( Assuming that one of the retaining post has broken or not present for some reason). I am posting a picture of a Korean movement showing the post that hold the springs apart as they expand . With your skills it may be possible to replace one of these post , but please be careful taking extra safety precautions. I will agree with Mr. Feldman that it might be best to discard this clock or just wind more frequently . Good luck. Hope this helps.

 

[eemoore]

After re-reading Mr. Feldman"s reply, I think he was stating that injury can occur while simply winding these clocks if the click spring or something else breaks in the winding mechanism. My click broke while trying to repair the spring, but apparently injury can occur with simply winding the clock. I agree with Mr.Feldman: these Korean movements can be dangerous. Others may disagree.

 

[Kevin W.]

What about replacing the long main spring with a shorter one, to run a regular 8 day clock, easier to manage the spring and less chance of mishaps.

 

[Dick Feldman]

What about replacing the long main spring with a shorter one, to run a regular 8 day clock, easier to manage the spring and less chance of mishaps.

A shorter main spring is not a good answer for the defective design in a click assembly.
The shortcomings of those movements are throughout the mechanism.
D

 

[Kevin W.]

Dick other clocks have poor click designs as well, and i and others have been injured winding them too.

 

[Dick Feldman]

Other clock movements having click or winding shortcomings is not germane to this discussion.
The fact that Asian made clocks are poorly designed and made with less than quality materials is just that. A fact. The shortcomings in Asian made click assemblies is magnified by the use of long springs. The failings of those click assemblies is not a matter of chance but almost inevitable. Failure may not come today or next week.
As a general rule, Asian clock movements are a potential hazard to repair people as well as the clock owners.
I have been through similar discussions before and without fail, no one has been able to prove that those movements are of good quality, safe, well made and reliable.
If the same safety standards were applied to these clocks that are applicable to child car seats, tools, and even automobiles, the clocks would be banned.
I have all of my fingers and I value that.
Again, this is my opinion.
D

 

[Basalt]

Thank you all for your replies and warnings. I think I will wait for the springs to completely wind down and then take a look inside. Then I will decide, maybe just winding the chime spring every 2 weeks as I am doing now will be the best solution.
Thanks again for all of your help.

 

[Dick Feldman]

Thank you all for your replies and warnings. I think I will wait for the springs to completely wind down and then take a look inside. Then I will decide, maybe just winding the chime spring every 2 weeks as I am doing now will be the best solution.
Thanks again for all of your help.

Don'f forget the heavy leather gloves.
D

 

[shutterbug]

We will be interested in seeing your pictures. When I wind any spring driven clock, I ease the key into the click, That way, if the click did happen to fail, I have options on how to address the problem without getting hurt

 

[Kevin W.]

Korean clock movements and Asian made clock movements in my opinion should not all be in the same group. Many Asian made clocks are as well built for their era than any other company. Newer Korean clocks are not well made in many respects, but they can be repaired. Good advice Shutt on winding any clock.

 

[Dick Feldman]

My experience with all Asian clocks is that the materials used are inferior and the design is poor. I agree that some pose a lesser threat of injury. Without exception, Asian made clocks have reliability and longevity issues. It is a shame many of those poorly designed movements are placed in somewhat attractive cases.

Over all, my judgement is that the movements are inferior to USA or European made movements and nobody has been able to convince me the lesser initial cost is a benefit.

Each of us has our standards.

D

 

[Thomas Sanguigni]

On the issue of Asian clocks, I agree with you Dick. However, you certainly are aware of Sessions click failures. I have repaired quite a few with this problem. I think it also is known the Hermle spring/click failures are pretty high too. I would imagine there are problems in many clocks and with their functions. Despite being Asian, some Korean clocks I have repaired are excellent time keepers.

 

[Bruce Barnes]

I agree with all the comments and the physical danger but lets not put Japanese clocks in the Asian category......what has been discussed here can also happen with American clocks as well, hence the need to review the clocks click and spring assembly's periodically.
signed,
Mr.Blue Thumb )

 

[Kevin W.]

Exactly Bruce Barnes.

 

[Lynsey]

Shutterbug, You mentioned having options on the ability to address the misfortune of the click not engaging whilst you were winding the clock......does one of them happen to be holding the clock to the wall with the other hand and yelling for help?

Inquiring minds want to know. Makes me want to wear leather gloves to wind my clocks heretofore.

 

[Thomas Sanguigni]

There is inherent danger each day you wake up. When you repair a clock, each and every aspect needs to be examined. If you follow a set procedure, you will cut down on problems. Then, when you learn new techniques, you add them into your repair procedures. You cannot avoid all problems.

 

[Dick Feldman]

We will be interested in seeing your pictures. When I wind any spring driven clock, I ease the key into the click, That way, if the click did happen to fail, I have options on how to address the problem without getting hurt

Here is my take on that.
Click assemblies should work and work every time, all of the time. Part time click assemblies should not be allowed.
Some will fail. That failure is normally due to a faulty click, a bad ratchet wheel, a brass return spring, an ill fitted pivot rivet, general wear, a faulty return spring or some other maintenance factor. Sometimes the click assembly design is wrong from the manufacture date. Sometimes the clock frame is not stable enough to support a viable click assembly. If the materials and design are insufficient it is wrong, regardless where or who built the movement. I do not believe that normal winding practices cause click failure. A well designed, stable click assembly will compensate for any winding errors.
If a clock is put into service with a questionable click assembly it is almost inevitable the assembly will fail---maybe not the first day but it will fail. Think of that in terms of Russian roulette or walking in a mine field. It is a mortal sin to overlook a questionable click assembly as good enough. Are you a patch artist or a real, honest to goodness clock repair person?
Special winding gyrations are not necessary for a stable, well designed click assembly. So----If the click assembly is bad---fix it. Fix it properly and it will be dependable for a long time. The old adage holds, “do a complete job the first time.”
Importance? Yes, high on my list.
Dick

 

[Bruce Barnes]

I totally agree with Mr. Feldman, a quote from my Great Grandfather.."be a job great or small do it right or not at all"
Bruce

 

[Kevin W.]

I agree clcok clicks should be checked as part of servicing and restored, repaired if need be. Also i agree with what Shutt said.

 

[shutterbug]

I do the same kind of winding whether the click is new or not. It's just not smart to let the click get hammered with every wind. I think most people wind a turn and let the spring act like a hammer against the click. It will eventually break much earlier when it's being abused like that.
Lynsey - to answer your question - yes, it never hurts to yell for help However, if the situation presents itself, when you are in control of the key, you have the option of working it off from the arbor. The damage to the movement won't be prevented, but damage to your thumb will