Waiting for my latest Salt of Macclesfield fusee dial to arrive.

Philip Snowden

Registered User
Sep 19, 2021
270
246
43
79
Country
Bought this convex dial clock on Saturday hoping that it arrives ok .Photographs are a little dark but hoping not any damage I haven’t seen.A few punch up marks on the back plate interesting bezel fix ,two doors and a bottom door .Absolutely love the dial and think that will probably stay as is nicely worn .Another nice 12 inch convex for the collection .About 1840 ish .

757A67C3-CE21-4A2C-8091-E8435A92E0AF.png ACA44FEB-BB7F-4B33-ADBE-DEEEC08B30AF.png 28E55D71-1517-429A-A417-EAD9B01D5BED.png D7E239E1-D7F6-4831-BD23-3345A62A3111.png 93ECE9F0-2855-491C-8878-3047612A525D.png E5750F7D-FCFE-468D-878B-8D5A8E2C632D.png 97D1059C-CA64-4CB7-BAA9-98DD59B18C10.png
 

novicetimekeeper

Registered User
Jul 26, 2015
12,097
1,439
113
Dorset
Country
Region
Were falseplates supplied with no holes or predrilled? I don't actually know, but I am always a bit concerned when they have unused holes.

I like the dial, it is a handsome clock
 

Philip Snowden

Registered User
Sep 19, 2021
270
246
43
79
Country
Were falseplates supplied with no holes or predrilled? I don't actually know, but I am always a bit concerned when they have unused holes.

I like the dial, it is a handsome clock
Yes who knows about the holes in the falseplate hoping the clockmaker had one laying around from a longcase but won’t be selling so not really concerned .As you say handsome clock.
 

Philip Snowden

Registered User
Sep 19, 2021
270
246
43
79
Country
Well the clock arrived today .Twas Packed on a nice sturdy box with no clinking of glass .On opening there was lots of bubble wrap over the glass but no hands visible .Lifted the clock out and the two original dowel pegs to hold the dial and movement on were broke in half.The pins had come out the falseplate and the hands were down the side of the bezel.no hour hand screw.I carefully took all of the bubble out of the box and low and behold the tiny screw in the bottom piece of bubble. Back together and ticking away beautifully .Love It !!!!

image.jpg
 

novicetimekeeper

Registered User
Jul 26, 2015
12,097
1,439
113
Dorset
Country
Region
Those are very thin pegs, perhaps it originally had the wire ones?

I prefer the movements to be removed for transit, particularly by carrier. I have all mine collected by man and van specialist so they have no mechanical handling, just get put in a plastic crate wrapped in a blanket at the auction house.
 

Philip Snowden

Registered User
Sep 19, 2021
270
246
43
79
Country
Those are very thin pegs, perhaps it originally had the wire ones?

I prefer the movements to be removed for transit, particularly by carrier. I have all mine collected by man and van specialist so they have no mechanical handling, just get put in a plastic crate wrapped in a blanket at the auction house.
The pegs are thin but look to be original .The back box has a door either side and one at the bottom and is real quality there are a couple of cracks in the bezel but I can live with them.The cast bezel is massive and although convex is early .so may be earlier than I thought .Think the movement isn’t the original as we thought but it too is early .I’m very happy with my purchase .I’ve had a couple delivered in a plastic box wrapped in blankets but had lots by post and only had one or two disasters
over the years .
 

Jezster18

Registered User
Jan 31, 2011
186
67
28
60
Country
Were falseplates supplied with no holes or predrilled? I don't actually know, but I am always a bit concerned when they have unused holes.

I like the dial, it is a handsome clock
The Finnemore false plate was manufactured in Birmingham 1815-1825 according to the British Museum
A very nice clock I like it.
 

Philip Snowden

Registered User
Sep 19, 2021
270
246
43
79
Country
The Finnemore false plate was manufactured in Birmingham 1815-1825 according to the British Museum
A very nice clock I like it.
Yes I bought it thinking it had a different movement but it has Arabic numerals at hour and quarters after that and original dial fantastic quality back box thick veneer on oak and a quirky bezel opener The movement is though not original it’s an early one .I’m very happy with it and it’s ticking away happily.Don’t think there’s many painted dial clocks with Arabic and Roman numerals on them .
 

novicetimekeeper

Registered User
Jul 26, 2015
12,097
1,439
113
Dorset
Country
Region
  • Like
Reactions: Philip Snowden

Jezster18

Registered User
Jan 31, 2011
186
67
28
60
Country
Yes I bought it thinking it had a different movement but it has Arabic numerals at hour and quarters after that and original dial fantastic quality back box thick veneer on oak and a quirky bezel opener The movement is though not original it’s an early one .I’m very happy with it and it’s ticking away happily.Don’t think there’s many painted dial clocks with Arabic and Roman numerals on them .
Hello Philip, I have a white dial moonphase clock here that belongs to a friend & after doing some research on it, it appears that putting the arabic numbers on the outside of the minute ring on longcase white dials, was done in the early period up to approx 1830's, then they stopped doing it, this has been confirmed to me that it is an early Nantwich dial by the museum. This might be the same for your wall clock,.
The fusee drop dial I just purchased, flat dial not convex dates to arround 1850 & just has roman numerals.
I always say if the clock pleases you & you are happy with the price paid, then that is all that matters.
The false plate could have been there for many years & we can all surmise what has happened to the clocks in the passage of time. The important thing is that it has survived.
I am just doing some repair work to the drop dial we have, mainly the case & cleaned the dial, but left in a good antique look not overdone as we don't want our clocks to look brand new. I will update with pictures on my thread when done.
 

novicetimekeeper

Registered User
Jul 26, 2015
12,097
1,439
113
Dorset
Country
Region
Hello Philip, I have a white dial moonphase clock here that belongs to a friend & after doing some research on it, it appears that putting the arabic numbers on the outside of the minute ring on longcase white dials, was done in the early period up to approx 1830's, then they stopped doing it, this has been confirmed to me that it is an early Nantwich dial by the museum. This might be the same for your wall clock,.
The Loomes family, Brian & Robert, have done a lot of research into white dials (longcase that is) which have followed a reasonably consistent timeline, probably helped by centralised manufacturing. They have every 5 mins normal 1770-1800, unusual 1800-1810 then stopped. Every 15 mins unusual 1795-1800, normal 1800-1820, then unusual 1820-1830 before stopping. These are clocks we are talking about so there are always exceptions, but dial painting was progressively centralised as I said.

I think they stopped a bit earlier in dial clocks, and most of the examples as a result are silvered dials not painted, which is why they are so much less common in painted dial clocks.
 

Philip Snowden

Registered User
Sep 19, 2021
270
246
43
79
Country
Hello Philip, I have a white dial moonphase clock here that belongs to a friend & after doing some research on it, it appears that putting the arabic numbers on the outside of the minute ring on longcase white dials, was done in the early period up to approx 1830's, then they stopped doing it, this has been confirmed to me that it is an early Nantwich dial by the museum. This might be the same for your wall clock,.
The fusee drop dial I just purchased, flat dial not convex dates to arround 1850 & just has roman numerals.
I always say if the clock pleases you & you are happy with the price paid, then that is all that matters.
The false plate could have been there for many years & we can all surmise what has happened to the clocks in the passage of time. The important thing is that it has survived.
I am just doing some repair work to the drop dial we have, mainly the case & cleaned the dial, but left in a good antique look not overdone as we don't want our clocks to look brand new. I will update with pictures on my thread when done.
Yes totally agree with your last paragraph and hopefully being saved for future generations but collecting is getting a little thin on the ground.I have only repainted dials which have totally lost paint and irreparable.
I have a dial clock from the Houses of Parliament with its crank key and an inventory ticket with it .The dial had lumps of paint missing and as I didn’t want to muck about with it that much I just coloured i with a white felt tip and it looks ok .the back box was riddled with wood worm so over th weeks I soaked each side and the back in killer fluid and that’s all gone and it’s pretty sturdy so left as is and I’m happy with it.will put a picture on .
Hope you will put a picture of your drop dial when it’s done .

9AF38157-6FE4-4172-ACD3-6FF9E109766A.png A4AE49A2-B50D-4B95-BB0E-92F33B5829C2.jpeg
 

Jezster18

Registered User
Jan 31, 2011
186
67
28
60
Country
The Loomes family, Brian & Robert, have done a lot of research into white dials (longcase that is) which have followed a reasonably consistent timeline, probably helped by centralised manufacturing. They have every 5 mins normal 1770-1800, unusual 1800-1810 then stopped. Every 15 mins unusual 1795-1800, normal 1800-1820, then unusual 1820-1830 before stopping. These are clocks we are talking about so there are always exceptions, but dial painting was progressively centralised as I said.

I think they stopped a bit earlier in dial clocks, and most of the examples as a result are silvered dials not painted, which is why they are so much less common in painted dial clocks.
Thanks for the
Yes totally agree with your last paragraph and hopefully being saved for future generations but collecting is getting a little thin on the ground.I have only repainted dials which have totally lost paint and irreparable.
I have a dial clock from the Houses of Parliament with its crank key and an inventory ticket with it .The dial had lumps of paint missing and as I didn’t want to muck about with it that much I just coloured i with a white felt tip and it looks ok .the back box was riddled with wood worm so over th weeks I soaked each side and the back in killer fluid and that’s all gone and it’s pretty sturdy so left as is and I’m happy with it.will put a picture on .
Hope you will put a picture of your drop dial when it’s done .

View attachment 720839 View attachment 720840
Hi Philip, your dial is not too bad, It could be improved quite a bit with, a clean & artists oil paints mixed to match the colour. & the name & London could be improved as well, the woodworm holes can be filled with coloured wood filler & suitable stain, I'm not sure if I can mention the manufacturers name on the forum, the only thing then is having a new or old if possible glass put into the bezel & the bezel cleaned, it would make it look really nice.
I'm just waiting for some stain to arrive to finish the case here & then oil the works & I can then get pictures of our drop dial on.
there are professional dial painters, but generally they are costly due to the hours they put in, they also at times make the dials so good, they look like they've just been done & you lose the antique look.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Philip Snowden

Philip Snowden

Registered User
Sep 19, 2021
270
246
43
79
Country
I have one, but only after a repaint, it was the only dial that made sense of the hands. Currently being converted back to verge

As you say, they are very unusual

Like the way you thought that one out by the length of the hands and the repaint is fantastic must know a good dial painter.I had a fantastic one in Hazelmere Barbara was her name but unfortunately she has passed so now I try to avoid dials that need work..
I have a little 8 inch convex drop which has both numerals and it looks to be original paint .Here’s a couple of pics .

F69E062E-883C-418A-BBF6-0344A8959C53.png C29CA1AB-763C-4BBE-B196-030388FA01E6.png
 

Jezster18

Registered User
Jan 31, 2011
186
67
28
60
Country
I hope you don't mind me adding these pictures of my friends dial here how it was & after I finished it. I copied the writing fom the ghost left on the dial exactly where they had been
I'm no dial restorer, but at least it looks better now, I'm just waiting for him to fetch it, it's all just a hobby for me.

20220129_230801.jpg 20220207_204828.jpg
 

novicetimekeeper

Registered User
Jul 26, 2015
12,097
1,439
113
Dorset
Country
Region
Like the way you thought that one out by the length of the hands and the repaint is fantastic must know a good dial painter.I had a fantastic one in Hazelmere Barbara was her name but unfortunately she has passed so now I try to avoid dials that need work..
I have a little 8 inch convex drop which has both numerals and it looks to be original paint .Here’s a couple of pics .

View attachment 720841 View attachment 720842
very nice, not the first Borrell I have seen either, I think the last I saw was silvered.

Edit> I am fortunate to have access to some of the best restorers available, though they don't all welcome new customers as they are cutting back. Fortunately they still accept my clocks.
 

Philip Snowden

Registered User
Sep 19, 2021
270
246
43
79
Country
I hope you don't mind me adding these pictures of my friends dial here how it was & after I finished it. I copied the writing fom the ghost left on the dial exactly where they had been
I'm no dial restorer, but at least it looks better now, I'm just waiting for him to fetch it, it's all just a hobby for me.

View attachment 720843 View attachment 720844
Well that looks great and you say it’s only a hobby wish I could do that my hands are too shaky now .Well done .Just noticed the two world arches with the tiniest writing and did you paint the moon phase ?
 
Last edited:

Jezster18

Registered User
Jan 31, 2011
186
67
28
60
Country
Well that looks great and you say it’s only a hobby wish I could do that my hands are too shaky now .Well done .Just noticed the two world arches with the tiniest writing and did you paint the moon phase ?
The world globes are transfers I bought them from an antique clock dealers online in the Uk I beleive they are the only people left that sell them I think £30 for the pair, the moonphase like everything else was really dirty, it would clean up brighter, but I decided to leave it as it is after cleaning & then everything has been waxed with renaissance wax as used by museums.
I like everything to be reversible that I do, it had been in the same family unloved since 1962, the oak & mahogany case was really dirty, & the feet had been off the bottom & refixed in the wrong place, they didn't realise you could take the hood & works out, so dragged the whole clock around, when it was moved..
My friends & I used to work in old manor houses decorating & repairing rooms & one of them used to work in Chatsworth House, (sadly now passed away) & the Joinery work was done by my friends brother a cabinet maker by trade, we are all time served qualified & now retired.
We just while away our time, doing clocks or furniture for our own pleasure. I'm afraid a lot of qualified tradesmen have now retired & it's hard to find someone qualified, we never advertised as word of mouth kept us in work.
 

Philip Snowden

Registered User
Sep 19, 2021
270
246
43
79
Country
The world globes are transfers I bought them from an antique clock dealers online in the Uk I beleive they are the only people left that sell them I think £30 for the pair, the moonphase like everything else was really dirty, it would clean up brighter, but I decided to leave it as it is after cleaning & then everything has been waxed with renaissance wax as used by museums.
I like everything to be reversible that I do, it had been in the same family unloved since 1962, the oak & mahogany case was really dirty, & the feet had been off the bottom & refixed in the wrong place, they didn't realise you could take the hood & works out, so dragged the whole clock around, when it was moved..
My friends & I used to work in old manor houses decorating & repairing rooms & one of them used to work in Chatsworth House, (sadly now passed away) & the Joinery work was done by my friends brother a cabinet maker by trade, we are all time served qualified & now retired.
We just while away our time, doing clocks or furniture for our own pleasure. I'm afraid a lot of qualified tradesmen have now retired & it's hard to find someone qualified, we never advertised as word of mouth kept us in work.
I have one clock friend left in worthing and he does clock work for me and he’s handy at woodwork on cases we’ve been mates for 50 years.He thinks he’s a bodger but I am always happy with what he does for me.The prices that clock restorers charge is out of this world but I spoke to Alistare in the Clock Clinic and he explained rents and London wages because of the cost of living in London whacks a load on it.
Bet that was a job moving a longcase with weights and movement still inside the case .
 
  • Love
Reactions: Jezster18

Forum statistics

Threads
176,448
Messages
1,544,449
Members
53,311
Latest member
Trikky2
Encyclopedia Pages
1,064
Total wiki contributions
3,031
Last update
-