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Wag-on-wall repair

MuensterMann

Registered User
Mar 23, 2008
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The warning lever is definitely a part of the problem. After strike is complete, all seems to be in order. However, when the warning starts, the warning level fails to arrest the warning wheel and so it will start striking without end and sounding rough.

Well, this is the first problem that needs to be addressed. I have been bending the warning level the best I could - but perhaps it is now bent in too many places. What is the best way to bend the warning level to make it work for all its jobs?
 

laprade

Registered User
I wasn't able to get a good look at the door as it is in shadow.

I know what you mean.

one question: is the door a complete single board, or is it "bread board" made,
i.e. has it got two pieces crossing top and bottom, to stop warping.
 

MuensterMann

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Mar 23, 2008
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This sequence seems to be in order:

  • After the hour, warning/locking pin rests on locking detent.
  • Countwheel detent is midway between notches except at 1 & 2 o'clock.
  • End of warning lever (wire) rests on cam wheel.
  • At about 10 to, both levers start to rise.
  • Locking detent is freed from pin.
  • Train rotates.
The warning lever (stiff wire) is also the lever that lifts the locking lever. It does reach the warning point where the train rotates, but this warning lever does not stop the pin when it comes around. So, that is one problem.

If I bend it to make sure it catches the pin, then it interferes during the strike sequence.

Then, there is resistance that this warning lever faces when it cannot rise any more - thus cause the time side to slip.

It is hard to bend the warning lever - since it must be bent while between the plates. Should the warning lever (wire) be straight? If so, how does it catch the pin?
 

zepernick

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Aug 8, 2004
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Laprade and all --

Large numbers of Black Forest Lackschilduhren -- the movements and dials of so called "shield-dial clocks" with the 8-day type predominating -- were exported to the US in the 1820s and into the early 1840s. And many of these were subsequently long/tallcased in the US, that is, in made-for-them cases.

This was a rather different development than took place in, say, the UK or in Germany itself. Nor did it apply to the Schotten-type movements as here (above).

The best current source for information about these clocks and this trade in this era is a 35-page chapter entitled "Schwarzwalduhren und Amerika" in the recent (2008) 4th edition of Schaaf's standard work, Schwarzwalduhren, The volume is reviewed, by the way, in the last (April 2009) NAWCC Bulletin.

There's not an in-English version but the photos are supralingual:)
 

MuensterMann

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Mar 23, 2008
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Okay, I have it such that the warning lever stops the lock pin. HOWEVER, back to the original problem - when the minute wheel pin pushes up the warning lever to the point of warning (causing 3/4 rotation of wheel) and the warning lever stops the lock pin - it is at that point that the minute wheel pin cannot push anymore (in fact, if I try to lift the lever with a finger, I can feel the resistance and it is almost locked) and the warning lever cannot move upward anymore since it is blocked by the lock pin.

Thus, in warning the lock pin prevents the warning lever from moving upwards any more distance. The force of the lock pin (pulled by the striking weight) in contact with the warning lever is way TOO much for the minute wheel to handle - thus it slips.

What can I do to overcome this problem? When the lock pin is held by the warning lever in warning, and the warning lever still wants to move upward to release the strike train - should the lock pin move backwards or forwards during that 5 minutes?

Help!!! (however, almost there!)
 

Mike Phelan

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Dec 17, 2003
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Just a quick reply for now, but the warning lever is nearly straight; the pin rests on the pin away from its end, and after the train unlocks and warns, the wheel is pushed backwards by the w/lever rising against the pin as it continues to the hour and both levers fall.
Must go now at it's my turn to cook, but will pop in in the morning (16:35 here now) and give you a close-up picture of mine if you're still stuck.

Your warning lever is the problem!

HTH
 

shutterbug

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Oct 19, 2005
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Just a quick reply for now, but the warning lever is nearly straight; the pin rests on the pin away from its end, and after the train unlocks and warns, the wheel is pushed backwards by the w/lever rising against the pin as it continues to the hour and both levers fall.
Must go now at it's my turn to cook, but will pop in in the morning (16:35 here now) and give you a close-up picture of mine if you're still stuck.

Your warning lever is the problem!

HTH
That sounds right to me. Your warning stop is probably on the end, and won't work that way. Read Mikes reply carefully, analyze it, and you'll probably be able to correct the problem.
 

MuensterMann

Registered User
Mar 23, 2008
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Yes, Mike's words were well taken! It was enough for me to focus on that warning lever today. I took the complete warning lever assembly off and straightened the warning wire. After a few tweaks, it started to behave just as Mike suggested. Also, the resistance went away to the point that the time side is now driving the strike side levers. It seems to be working well. I am testing it now for sustainability.

:D
 

MuensterMann

Registered User
Mar 23, 2008
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Yes, the clock seems to be functioning well now! The warning lever was not straight - it had two little bends that looked like they had a purpose. The lock pin on warning was hitting the warning lever in such a position that the lock wheel turned a little too much. Thus, the warning lever could not push it backwards. The comments stating that the warning lever is "nearly straight" and that the "lock wheel moves backward" were key to resolving the problem. THANKS!
 

Mike Phelan

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Dec 17, 2003
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Good result - enjoy the clock - though these are quite crude, I like these clocks and have had quite a few of them; only one here, but it will always stay.
 

Kevin W.

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Apr 11, 2002
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Were these wag clocks or postmans clocks made to run 8 days or all were 30 hour clocks?
 

Mike Phelan

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Dec 17, 2003
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All 30-hour, Kevin. The alarm runs down completely, so it would have to be so.
 

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