French $ Vincenti clock

Discussion in 'General Clock Discussions' started by Salsagev, Jun 28, 2020.

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  1. Salsagev

    Salsagev Registered User

    Feb 6, 2020
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    I was told This French clock is by vincenti. How old is it and can I have some background information on it?
     
  2. JTD

    JTD Registered User

    Sep 27, 2005
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    Did you mean to post a photo?

    JTD
     
  3. Ticktocktime100

    Ticktocktime100 Registered User

    Hi,

    Pardon the self-publicity, but I've already given my two cents worth in my first reply to your "vacation finds" thread, so you cna refer to that if you wish.

    Regards.
     
  4. Salsagev

    Salsagev Registered User

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    Yes, I did but it disappeared. I’ll try again.
    whats this?
     
  5. Ticktocktime100

    Ticktocktime100 Registered User

    I'm referring to my reply to your thread "Vacation clock finds", which I enclose once again below:

    1. The figural clock is late 19th century, and dates to 1880-1900. It has a typical French movement, known as a "mouvement de Paris" as these movements were mostly produced in Paris and the surrounding areas. As you know, it was made by Vincenti & Cie. The figure appears to be signed F. Moreau. The Moreau was an important family of French sculptors throughout the 19th century, the most famous members being Auguste and Mathurin Moreau. The Moreau brothers agreed to make spelter reproductions (of which this is one), of the bronze original for clock companies to produce pieces such as this. The hands don't appear to be original - value around $200-300, perhaps.
     
  6. Salsagev

    Salsagev Registered User

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    Thank you, but all I needed was an explanation of what you meant.
     
  7. Salsagev

    Salsagev Registered User

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    Is there gold in the statue? How old is this clock. What would the hand look like original? And no, these questions have not been answered before.
     
  8. JTD

    JTD Registered User

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    Please be careful to read the the information people give you. Two of your questions have been answered already.

    No. You have already been told the material from which the statue is made (post #5 above

    This has been answered in post #5.

    JTD
     
  9. macaw

    macaw Registered User
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    It's spelter which is a cheap metal, and then gold plated.
     
  10. Salsagev

    Salsagev Registered User

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    So there is gold then.
    Are you sure? The medallion says 1855.
    no, this hasn’t been answered.
     
  11. JTD

    JTD Registered User

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    #11 JTD, Jun 29, 2020
    Last edited: Jun 29, 2020
    So little as to be insignificant. (Even if it is gold plated, which it may not be).
    As has been said before, the medallion is just the date when the company won the award, not a date of manufacture. They could continue to use for as long as they liked.

    JTD
     
  12. Salsagev

    Salsagev Registered User

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    I asked if there was any gold in the statue, implying that I want to know if there is there any sort of gold. Even if it is in minute Form.
    ?
     
  13. JTD

    JTD Registered User

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    In my opinion it is not gold plated.

    Over and out.

    JTD
     
  14. Evernia

    Evernia Registered User

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    If you look on an image search for other clocks by the same maker you will be able to see various different hands. Patterns which turn up on more than one clock are more likely to be original, and some just look right and suit - the ones on this clock at present are far plainer than the rest of the clock. Can you find a clock (or more) with hands you think this might have had when original? There are probably different options and not just one right answer.
     
    Salsagev and JTD like this.
  15. Salsagev

    Salsagev Registered User

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    A lot I found had the circular type. Am I right?
     
  16. macaw

    macaw Registered User
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    What makes it gold colored? Were these originally painted, or painted after the plating was worn off? Or is spelter actually gold colored? Somebody please clue me in because I could be wasting a lot of gold on restoring customers' clocks.
     
  17. JTD

    JTD Registered User

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    No, spelter is not gold colored, it is a grayish metal. Highest quality clocks were gilded, but this is no longer practical. Most of the others were painted gold.

    What are you using - is it gold leaf? If so you can get 'non-gold' gold leaf, which looks very good and is a fraction of the price. Another possibiility is Rub-'n'-Buff which comes in various shades of gold and gives a very acceptable finish.

    Hope this helps.
    JTD
     
  18. Ticktocktime100

    Ticktocktime100 Registered User

    The clock would originally have had trefoil or Renaissance style hands. If you look these up online, you will see what I mean. A pair can be obtained rather inexpensively.

    Regards.
     
  19. macaw

    macaw Registered User
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    This does help a lot. I use gold plating and match the original from some of the few spots that are left in hidden places. It's not cheap and far from easy to get a close match, but it can be done.
     
  20. Salsagev

    Salsagev Registered User

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    I was thinking about something like this. Tennis dance hands would probably look better.

    09D55ACC-017A-4F45-B4D0-DA3AEE57F31A.png
     
  21. Salsagev

    Salsagev Registered User

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    Does this look anything like gold? 95669091-2C9A-415B-83EE-F0FF43EFE832.jpeg
     
  22. Evernia

    Evernia Registered User

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    The circle hands - called moon or Breguet hands - are indeed used on a lot of clocks of similar age but I agree with ticktocktime they are not the most likely to have been on this clock. Moon hands would be a more likely choice on something with a bit less ornamentation, especially the centre of the dial. I am sure there are clocks with ornamented dials and moon hands, but they are not what is expected.
     
  23. Evernia

    Evernia Registered User

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  24. JTD

    JTD Registered User

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    It is gold color. That doesn't mean it's gold.

    JTD
     
  25. Salsagev

    Salsagev Registered User

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    It looks similar but a but darker.
     
  26. Evernia

    Evernia Registered User

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    And the texture?
     
  27. JTD

    JTD Registered User

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    Evernia should be thanked. He has sent you a very good, clear, sharp photo of what is a really nice gilded clock. There is a world of difference between that and the gold colored spelter on yours.

    I should take a note of this example, file it for future reference, and learn from it. That way you will able to know what you are looking at next time.

    JTD
     
  28. Salsagev

    Salsagev Registered User

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    Mine is more bumpy in spots.
     
  29. Salsagev

    Salsagev Registered User

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    This looks like the gilded clock.

    27E7D21A-B1FB-4C24-9EE1-1F3CB18EC03E.jpeg
     
  30. JTD

    JTD Registered User

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    Exactly. Not gold, just painted spelter.

    JTD
     
  31. JTD

    JTD Registered User

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    No, it doesn't. That is polished brass. When you have seen more real gilt, then you will see the difference.

    JTD
     
  32. jmclaugh

    jmclaugh Registered User

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    This thread is a hoot, as far as I can tell the OP hasn't even posted any pictures to show the clock in question in its entirety.
     
  33. Salsagev

    Salsagev Registered User

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    Well, I tried and it dint work. I’ll try again now.
     
  34. Salsagev

    Salsagev Registered User

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  35. Ticktocktime100

    Ticktocktime100 Registered User

    No, Breguet style hands wouldn't be right. Again, look up Renaissance style or trefoil hands, as those are the correct ones. The figure is NOT gold, but the spelter gained its gold colour through a technique called electrolysis.
     
  36. Salsagev

    Salsagev Registered User

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    I did. I said renaissance hands look fine.
     
  37. macaw

    macaw Registered User
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    Where does one learn about this? The only electrolysis that I am aware of is plating (a form of electrolysis), or gold recovery and separation using electrolysis.
     
  38. Salsagev

    Salsagev Registered User

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    I thought this was hair removal.
     
  39. Ticktocktime100

    Ticktocktime100 Registered User

    Hi,

    Yes, the form of electrolysis in question here, as I understand it, is indeed plating. I presume this technique was used on spelter clock figures and such because it was quicker and certainly more cost efficient than gilding. I'm sure any decent physics book or manual, and reference books on metalworking will contain a technical explanation of the process.

    Regards.
     
  40. JTD

    JTD Registered User

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    I'm not so sure about that. I recently asked the guy who is a professional plater if he could nickel plate a little spelter clock case and he said it was not possible to satisfactorily plate spelter.

    I have never heard or read of electrolysis being used on spelter parts of antique clocks but, as always, I may be wrong.

    JTD
     
  41. Evernia

    Evernia Registered User

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    Spelter needs a two part electroplating process - first with copper and then gold on the copper. spelter
     
  42. JTD

    JTD Registered User

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    I know, but many platers won't do it.

    JTD
     
  43. jmclaugh

    jmclaugh Registered User

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    It is a French figural clock with what appears to be a marble base with metal decoration, I can't imagine any real gold ever went near it. Dating Vincenti movements is quite difficult as there seems to be very little information on the company and the 1834 and 1855 silver medals seem to be the only ones found on movements, one source says it is believed the company ceased making movements in 1870 but gives no evidence to support that.
     
  44. macaw

    macaw Registered User
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    Plating (electroplating) uses a chemical solution and a DC electrical current to affix a metal coating, in this case for coloring, to another metals surface. To use electroplating to color another metal gold, the solution needs to include gold. One electrode is attached to the metal being plated and another in the solution. The metal in solution is drawn by the direct current onto the metal being plated. Many clock manufacturers used this method on spelter, such as Ansonia's plating of gold, silver, and bronze on their statue clocks. When the spelter corrodes under the plating, the spelter comes through, which is why so many of the statue clocks one finds today are all grey. To replate these one must remove all the corrosion down to the base metal, and when doing this one will sometimes find traces of the original plating. This is what I do and how I have a slight knowledge of it. And yes spelter can be a b-.
     
  45. Ticktocktime100

    Ticktocktime100 Registered User

    Many thanks - that definitely clarifies things then.

    Regards.
     
  46. Salsagev

    Salsagev Registered User

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    Thanks for the info. I can’t expect too much from a clock like this anyway. But what “class” of homes would this be situated in?
     
  47. Isaac

    Isaac Registered User

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    Perhaps middle to upper-middle class is my guess. A clock that has this type of more "ornate" styling usually is placed in a room that also compliments that style with similar furniture, etc.
     
  48. jmclaugh

    jmclaugh Registered User

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    These days I just hope it has or will find one.
     
  49. Salsagev

    Salsagev Registered User

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    Huh?
     
  50. Salsagev

    Salsagev Registered User

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    Some final questions: can I use brasso to clean the specter parts? Would this clock be better or worse than my other French clock? upload_2020-7-4_9-43-21.jpg
     

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