Help Vienna Regulator lost it's beat - New EW maybe?

shutterbug

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It will be even better with your input again, Mike! :D
 

RJSoftware

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I'm still here, SB and RJ - nothing got my goat, but I had a few blood clots in my cerebrum which put me out of action for a while. Good to see that the Forum seems to be much better and more user friendly :D
Wow...!!!

Speechless I is. Is this the resurrection?
What happened?

I went to your funeral, at least I thought I did. Must be the Mandela effect.

2020 was such a crazy crazy crazy crazy year.... So many opinions to get caught up with you about.

I might have split a few atoms in my brain cells trying achieve quantum singularity. So forgive my old rectifier bleedthrough. Stupid solid state.

Got to hear your opinions man. Pm when you can.
(yes, I voted T)
 

RJSoftware

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I think Mandela is in overdrive. I'm seeing ghost post and they contain relevant personal conversations about me -that I didn't sub to. Refresh and they disappear.... as though never happened...

do da doo doo.
do da doo doo.
didilydidllydoooo.!!! (twilight zone).

might be a helper spirit.
 
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Probox

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Well folks, here I am still at it. I've got the clock running for a week no problem but when I add anything like the motion works or the hands she stops. Power problem I estimate. So, time to rebush. I see wear especially in the escape wheel arbor pivots. Problem is....this is one of those escapements that has the adjustable depth screw. I need to bush that pivot. Do you folks have any tips/warnings before I try rebushing that one? I' really nervous about doing that one......see the pics of the thing I must rebush.

20210309_191249.jpg 20210309_191255.jpg 20210309_191317.jpg 20210309_191424.jpg
 

Vernon

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After centering the mill over the worn hole, I used a milling bit (sturdy) to cut the hole round. I then plugged it with brass and cut a new hole to fit the pivot.
This is the only picture of when it was plugged. Work out great!
Edit, found another one.

IMG_20191103_152008.jpg 16153729926941014768935909714556.jpg
 
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shutterbug

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As long as the pivot is centered where it used to be and the eccentric bushing doesn't move, you should be fine. You don't want those to turn. They are set at the factory and should never require adjustment.
 

Probox

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As long as the pivot is centered where it used to be and the eccentric bushing doesn't move, you should be fine. You don't want those to turn. They are set at the factory and should never require adjustment.
Hi Shutterbug, I have adjusted that eccentric bushing so it does move. I had to adjust it (see earlier posts in this thread). So, my big concern is when I punch the new bushing down inside it will it knock the eccentric bushing out of the plate? That pivot is badly worn so I need to rebush it.
 

Vernon

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Ken,
Support the plate on the opposite side of your work with something solid. See my first picture in post 55.
 

Probox

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Well, the good news is, the bushings are all in and the clock is running intermittently. Been running well since 10:00 pm last evening and still running today. I used my electronic beat analyzer to try to put it in really good beat. What I noticed is the numbers are all over the place. (using balance mode). Anything from 20 and under is a good beat, sometimes I'm down to 1 and in the space of 60 seconds it can go as high as 350 or 400. which is almost stopped. My guess is that the inconsistency is caused by gaps in the EW teeth. Some are farther apart than others. Do you agree with that assessment? If so, what can I do about evening them up? Is there a tool for that?
 

Dick Feldman

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Your beat analyzer could be picking up an extra noise, like the pendulum leader clicking in the crutch slot.
Try listening to the beat with a beat amplifier. You may detect an extra noise.
You may have the "gain" adjusted too high.
If you have a bent tooth on an escape wheel with say 35 teeth, the uneven beat should show up every 35th tick.
Bent teeth on escape wheels usually come from brute force, not from wear.
If you are seeing an escapement that is normally even and then deteriorates over a period of a half minute or minute, it is a sign of lack of power to the escapement.
With normal operation, how is the pendulum amplitude? If it is rather shallow, I would be suspicious of low power.
Before you adjust the escapement, I would suggest you check the locks and drops.
The best explanation I know of locks/drops comes from THIS OLD CLOCK by David Goodman.
If you do not have that book, let me know and I will PM the necessary pages.
Is the time wheel train free? Could you have a bushing that is too tight and causing power loss?
Have you addressed all loose pivot holes or only the worst ones?
Again, the escapement may be the victim rather than the cause of the problem.
Best of luck,
Dick
 

Probox

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Your beat analyzer could be picking up an extra noise, like the pendulum leader clicking in the crutch slot.
Try listening to the beat with a beat amplifier. You may detect an extra noise.
You may have the "gain" adjusted too high.
If you have a bent tooth on an escape wheel with say 35 teeth, the uneven beat should show up every 35th tick.
Bent teeth on escape wheels usually come from brute force, not from wear.
If you are seeing an escapement that is normally even and then deteriorates over a period of a half minute or minute, it is a sign of lack of power to the escapement.
With normal operation, how is the pendulum amplitude? If it is rather shallow, I would be suspicious of low power.
Before you adjust the escapement, I would suggest you check the locks and drops.
The best explanation I know of locks/drops comes from THIS OLD CLOCK by David Goodman.
If you do not have that book, let me know and I will PM the necessary pages.
Is the time wheel train free? Could you have a bushing that is too tight and causing power loss?
Have you addressed all loose pivot holes or only the worst ones?
Again, the escapement may be the victim rather than the cause of the problem.
Best of luck,
Dick
Yup, I am thinking lack of power, perhaps one of the bushings I didn't smooth it out enough, might be a little tight. I do have the book This Old Clock, it's how I adjusted the pallets after working on the EW. Running still today since yesterday but keeps running fast (amplitude issue?) so I'll keep regulating the bob downward to slow down the beat and this may also fix the problem with amplitude.
 

bruce linde

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what i've been doing lately... with good success... is installing a busing and then installing just the one arbor to see how it spins. i tilt the movement back to make sure the gear spins like a greased pig on ice, and then forward. i then check add the next/adjacent arbor in the train and check them together. this can multiple passes, so it's important to be extra extra careful about bending (or worse) pivots. at the end, though, you have a train that should spin with just the slightest pressure on the great wheel.

next step is looking at a the escape wheel to see what you do and don't have.... using magnification. close observation will reveal rough surfaces, spacing issues, non-flat teeth ends, etc. you can CAREFULLY top an EW but have to be careful about changing depthing between it and the verge. another thing i've been doing is taking 4000 grit wet/dry paper and wrapping some around very fine needle files to very carefully polish and smooth out the surfaces of the EW and pallets that interact.... 4000 will smooth without removing much material, and help reduce friction.

btw... just had a banjo clock movement where the minute hand arbor was a noogie too snug coming through the front plate... the clock would run great without the hands, but when the hands were put on it would stop within hours. i used a smoothing broach to barely dress the hole in the front plate, which addressed the problem.

after that... you can look at the interaction of EW and verge... with requisite adjustments for anchor or deadbeats. and, in fact, the banjo clock movement would not fall into beat until i had the drops adjusted perfectly... and now it's happy.
 

Probox

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Oct 27, 2015
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what i've been doing lately... with good success... is installing a busing and then installing just the one arbor to see how it spins. i tilt the movement back to make sure the gear spins like a greased pig on ice, and then forward. i then check add the next/adjacent arbor in the train and check them together. this can multiple passes, so it's important to be extra extra careful about bending (or worse) pivots. at the end, though, you have a train that should spin with just the slightest pressure on the great wheel.

next step is looking at a the escape wheel to see what you do and don't have.... using magnification. close observation will reveal rough surfaces, spacing issues, non-flat teeth ends, etc. you can CAREFULLY top an EW but have to be careful about changing depthing between it and the verge. another thing i've been doing is taking 4000 grit wet/dry paper and wrapping some around very fine needle files to very carefully polish and smooth out the surfaces of the EW and pallets that interact.... 4000 will smooth without removing much material, and help reduce friction.

btw... just had a banjo clock movement where the minute hand arbor was a noogie too snug coming through the front plate... the clock would run great without the hands, but when the hands were put on it would stop within hours. i used a smoothing broach to barely dress the hole in the front plate, which addressed the problem.

after that... you can look at the interaction of EW and verge... with requisite adjustments for anchor or deadbeats. and, in fact, the banjo clock movement would not fall into beat until i had the drops adjusted perfectly... and now it's happy.
Thanks Bruce, all good suggestions. Well she stopped now after I did my last adjustment to the bob. Time to take apart and analyze everything again. Oh my. I like your trick for smoothing the pallet surfaces. I have them polished to a very high shine.
 

shutterbug

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They do make a tool for repairing the teeth on an EW, but they are pretty costly. You can pull the teeth straight with a smooth jawed needle nose plier. Just align the flat side of the tooth with one jaw and apply a little pressure as you pull it straight off the point. Quite often the point of a tooth will be "hooked" and will cause all kinds of problems.
 

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