Vienna Movement Hammer & Gong Positioning Problem

Discussion in 'Clock Repair' started by ddhix, May 4, 2012.

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  1. ddhix

    ddhix Registered User

    Apr 7, 2011
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    Hi everyone.

    I got a vienna regulator with an old german movement. Refurbished the case, now I'm about to clean up the movement. However, before taking a movement apart I like to make sure I am able to put it back together properly. The striking hammer is in a very strange position in relation to the gong, and I am completely confused. Since I have never worked on one of these before (I've done dozens of Cuckoo clocks, that's what I'm best at), I am not even sure if the hammer is bent incorrectly. I've uploaded two pictures to show ya'll, and get some advice if possible. The first is from the back, showing the hammer's position, and some strange thin wire next to it. The next picture is from the side, showing the chime wheel, with the hammer's arbor, and a very small spring wire (which I am not even sure which side the thin spring wire should go on, the top or bottom).

    I know none of these are clean and need attention. Like I said, I haven't done anything to it yet, just been running it to see how the heck it's supposed to chime, and I just cannot see it. I won't take it apart until I can figure out this chime organization.

    Thank you all for your help!
     

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  2. Scottie-TX

    Scottie-TX Registered User

    Apr 6, 2004
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    Basically, I'll try to explain in words but MUCH better explained with a picture I don't have. The hammer wilre will be in a horizontal plane and bent outward slightly to strike a coil a short distance behind it. I believe the strange wire is to arrest the hammer and prevent bounce.
     
  3. dAz57

    dAz57 Registered User

    Dec 7, 2011
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    I did one of these a few months back, the spring is a hammer dampening spring, it is suppose to help prevent bounce in the hammer after it strikes the gong.

    usually the gong is behind the movement on the backboard of the case, the hammer arm is cranked out and the hammer strikes the middle part of the gong (if the correct type of gong is fitted), the damper spring is positioned so the bent bit at the end is under the hammer arm near the hammer arbour.

    this is a FMS, Friedrich Mauthe & Son movement.
     

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  4. dAz57

    dAz57 Registered User

    Dec 7, 2011
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    one thing you might want to check is the click springs, on the one I had the spring is part of the plate that holds down the clicks, the plate is stamped from a single piece of mild steel and after many years the springs break off right on the fold where they come out from the plate, have a real close look for cracks here, if you see any then make new springs.

    the previous repairer used a brass spring to replace the broken click spring, his mounting method was interesting.

    I made a brass block into which I fitted two lengths of clock mainspring cut to size (I never throw away old springs unless they are too rusty), this block fits under the plate, and because they are flat springs with a gentle curve they should last a long time.
     

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  5. ddhix

    ddhix Registered User

    Apr 7, 2011
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    Thank ya'll so much for your help. The pictures really helped a ton, and I will start getting mine positioned properly to reflect yours. I'm not sure exactly what happened to mine, but that's how it was when I pulled it out of the case. The guy I got the clock from (for $5) said he found it laying face down in a barn thirty years ago. The glass was still there, the face, movement, everything still there except for the pendulum. The movement still runs (badly), so it was easy to determine that I need a 9-3/4" pendulum, which I got from Merrit's for like $7 or $8 I think. Anyway, again, thank ya'll very much.

    About your click springs; I found them very interesting compared to mine. Mine are flat brass rods that appear to be riveted into the front plate. Our clicks are identical, and in identical position, but our ratchet/click gears are very different. I attached a photo for comparison. It appears that mine would be an FMS movement as well; I didn't know that until I looked at yours, and you said it. The markings on mine are worn, and I had no idea there was an eagle on mine until I saw yours, looked at mine and saw a VERY worn one there. Also, mine says "4 3/4" where yours says "42 105", I wonder why they changed that? Also, on the front plate, bottom right, yours says "1", mine says "8."

    In any case, I hope to get mine looking as nice as yours. Thank you for sharing! photo4.jpg photo5.jpg
     
  6. dAz57

    dAz57 Registered User

    Dec 7, 2011
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    well if the serial numbers are correct, yours is an earlier one than mine, don't know if there are records of Mauthe production runs like with Gustav Becker and the others.

    I have seen that style of ratchet wheel before, used in cuckoo chain wheels and on my mainspring winder :), not a bad idea, if one side wears too much, just turn it over, or in the case of my mainspring winder, it works either way

    ok now you can see the bean counters coming into play here, your clock has two click springs, two clicks and rivets, two holders and screws for the two ratchet wheels, 12 parts, mine has two ratchet wheels, clicks and rivets, one holder plate stamped from one piece that has the click springs integrated and one screw to hold it, 8 parts, what they should have done is keep the click springs like on yours and made a single holding plate with one screw.

    don't know what the 4 3/4 means, the 42/105 is the pendulum length in CM and the beats per minute of the pendulum, the D.R.P Deutsches Reichspatent (Imperial German Patent) N.55006 is the same.
     
  7. soaringjoy

    soaringjoy Registered User

    Feb 12, 2009
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    No, there is no known dating system per Mauthe SNs.
    D.R.P. 55006 is the "Kielmann patent", one stumbled across most often, it's the
    pendulum leader retainment - which requires a suspension spring of exact size.
    A MB search will give you plenty of reading.
     
  8. GregS

    GregS Registered User

    Sep 4, 2008
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    Go to the Clocks forum and search for a thread titled something like "Post your Mauthe Clocks here"
    There you will find a great deal of information relating to dating your clock. Keep in mind that as Soaringjoy mentions, dating is difficult. But, I can tell you from personal experience the guys that watch that thread really are experts in their field and have amassed a great deal of historical information regarding the Mauthe company and their movements.

    Cheers,
    Greg
     
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