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Vienna clock running slow. Please help...

Ajay

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Aug 17, 2009
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Hi All
This,recentely purchased vienna movement is running almost 9 minutes slow/day.I have raised the pendulum bob to the maximum possible height,still it is slow !

The movement looks very clean and the seller told me that it has been fully striped and cleaned. I have noticed the follwing while the clock works

1) Pendulum swings very slowly ! ( Pendulum length is 26 " )
2) Pendulum swings only 7 "
3) Minute hand is very loose and some times it get struck with hour hand.So it is running without hands now !!

Please advice me.What to do to regulate the time ? If any other deails are required ( Like How much each weight weighs etc.. )please let me know.

Thank you
Regards
Ajay 71810.jpg 71812.jpg 71813.jpg 72883.jpg 72884.jpg 72885.jpg
 

Scottie-TX

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Not too much to tell or guess here: Regulation is MOSTLY about pendulum length and that means most often that bob needs raised. If bob can't be raised further, I'd counterweight uppermost part of stick as I previously described.
 

Ajay

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Aug 17, 2009
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Hi Scottie
Thanks for the reply.Could you please explain,How to counterweight the uppermost part of stick. or please show me the link to access the details.I did not understand what exactly has to be done.

Regards
Ajay


Scottie-TX;496660 said:
Not too much to tell or guess here: Regulation is MOSTLY about pendulum length and that means most often that bob needs raised. If bob can't be raised further, I'd counterweight uppermost part of stick as I previously described.
 

shutterbug

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A seven inch swing is a huge amount for a Vienna. I'm a little suspicious of what might have been done to the movement.
What Scottie is talking about is adding weight above the center of oscillation. That will speed up the pendulum. The higher, the better. Start by taping some coins to the back edge of the stick on top. When you get the weight and position determined you can make it more pretty.
 

harold bain

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The minute hand being "very loose" could easily be the cause of losing time.
 

Ajay

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Hi Shutterbug,
I am not sure whether my communication regarding the pendulum swing was clear.So let me explain it once again,7" is the distance between the two points ( left and right ) from where the pendulum bob stops and starts its return.( that means the pendulum can easily swing in a case with a width slightly more than 7 ",I think it is more clear now )

The bob has a diameter of 6". Length of pendulum stick is 26". Both the weights weigh 1445 grams and 1440 grams respectively.

I had removed both the hands and the movement was running without hands.

Thank you
Regards
Ajay




shutterbug;496673 said:
A seven inch swing is a huge amount for a Vienna. I'm a little suspicious of what might have been done to the movement.
What Scottie is talking about is adding weight above the center of oscillation. That will speed up the pendulum. The higher, the better. Start by taping some coins to the back edge of the stick on top. When you get the weight and position determined you can make it more pretty.
 

John Hubby

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Ajay, the pendulum swing you describe is still confusing. What is the distance between stops (right and left) of the bottom point of the pendlum rod? I think that must be MUCH less than seven inches!
 

harold bain

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I'm guessing if you subtract the width of the bob, you will have the actual movement of the pendulum.
 

shutterbug

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harold bain;496753 said:
I'm guessing if you subtract the width of the bob, you will have the actual movement of the pendulum.
Yeah, that would be 1/2" on each side. That sounds about normal :)
 

Scottie-TX

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As SHUT explained, AJAY: I use stickum, tiny lead blocks (hobby shop) on very top, backside of rod. Add weight until it is too fast and return to nut for final.
We now understand 7". Normally one describes amplitude as how far the threaded rod and reg. nut travel, totally. In your case, we arrive at one inch swing amplitude.
You need to address that hand issue. Now, you can test without the hands. Often I do. Just take a little piece of 3 X 5 card, cut it in a pointer shape, pierce, and push onto centershaft.
But the loose minute hand and interference. See if you can push the hour hand further onto the hour cannon. That'll improve clearance. I suspect those hands are not original. Next, the minute hand. The minute cannon gets it's drive from either a cannon that is friction fit to the centershaft or from an arched, diamond shaped, steel spring beneath the minute cannon. If friction fit, you'll need to restore friction by squooshing it a little. If spring loaded, you'll need a spacer between taper pin and minute hand, thick enough that hand needs depressed to insert pin. Installing that spacer beneath the minute hand would also buy you more clearance between the two hands if you have that much space on the arbor square.
 

Ajay

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Hi Scottie/Shuterbug/Harold/John
Thank you so much for your advice. I have attached herewith the top side photo of stick and marked 1,2,3 and 4.Please let me know where should I paste the weight ( Whether at 1 or 2 or......).

Thank you
Regards
Ajay







Scottie-TX;496818 said:
As SHUT explained, AJAY: I use stickum, tiny lead blocks (hobby shop) on very top, backside of rod. Add weight until it is too fast and return to nut for final.
We now understand 7". Normally one describes amplitude as how far the threaded rod and reg. nut travel, totally. In your case, we arrive at one inch swing amplitude.
You need to address that hand issue. Now, you can test without the hands. Often I do. Just take a little piece of 3 X 5 card, cut it in a pointer shape, pierce, and push onto centershaft.
But the loose minute hand and interference. See if you can push the hour hand further onto the hour cannon. That'll improve clearance. I suspect those hands are not original. Next, the minute hand. The minute cannon gets it's drive from either a cannon that is friction fit to the centershaft or from an arched, diamond shaped, steel spring beneath the minute cannon. If friction fit, you'll need to restore friction by squooshing it a little. If spring loaded, you'll need a spacer between taper pin and minute hand, thick enough that hand needs depressed to insert pin. Installing that spacer beneath the minute hand would also buy you more clearance between the two hands if you have that much space on the arbor square.
72991.jpg
 

shutterbug

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Any of those spots will work. Try '1' first with a couple of weights, and measure the resultant increase in regulation. Keep experimenting until it keeps time. However, unless the pendulum is a marriage there must me another issue. If it is an added pendulum, you could take off the hanger, cut the stick, replace the hanger. You could also try a smaller, lighter bob so the stick would raise the center of oscillation for you.
 
Last edited:

Ajay

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Hi Shutterbug
Thank you so much.
Regards
Ajay


shutterbug;496931 said:
Any of those spots will work. Try '1' first with a couple of weights, and measure the resultant increase in regulation. Keep experimenting until it keeps time. However, unless the pendulum is a marriage there must me another issue. If it is an added pendulum, you could take off the hanger, cut the stick, replace the hanger. You could also try a smaller, lighter bob so the stick would raise the center of oscillation for you.
 

shutterbug

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Scottie-TX;497059 said:
Probably not a great idea:

After doing that, wearplate would have to be moved downward also.
Oh, good point Scottie :) Probably could work from the other end, but it would be more difficult.
 

Ajay

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Aug 17, 2009
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Hi
This is how I attached weight to the stick.Just wrapped approximately 45 grams of lead stripes around the stick on the upper end. There is no more space to add more weights. Now the clock is keeping good time ( 1 minute fast in 48 hours ).Thank you all for your suggestions.

I am thinking of removing a small piece ( in 1 or 2 " diameter )of metal from the back side of pendulum bob, to reduce the weight.So that I can remove the weights that I attached to the stick. Is it advicable to do this ?

Thank you
Regards
Ajay




shutterbug;496931 said:
Any of those spots will work. Try '1' first with a couple of weights, and measure the resultant increase in regulation. Keep experimenting until it keeps time. However, unless the pendulum is a marriage there must me another issue. If it is an added pendulum, you could take off the hanger, cut the stick, replace the hanger. You could also try a smaller, lighter bob so the stick would raise the center of oscillation for you.
73352.jpg 73353.jpg 73354.jpg
 

Scottie-TX

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Not advisable.
Not advisable because that zinc back weighs perhaps only an ounce or less and will affect reg. VERY little.
 

shutterbug

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Right. We're dealing with pendulum theory here, and it's not additional weight that made a difference in time-keeping but placement of the weight. Anything you do now will effect the way it works. You can, however, weigh your added weights and find a substitute that looks better :)
 

Ajay

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Hi Scottie/Shutterbug
Thank you so much for your advice.Let me try to substitute those weights with some good looking items.The space is very limited there to substitute the whole thing with a single weight.Still I am trying for some alternatives.
Thank you once again
Regards
Ajay



shutterbug;497980 said:
Right. We're dealing with pendulum theory here, and it's not additional weight that made a difference in time-keeping but placement of the weight. Anything you do now will effect the way it works. You can, however, weigh your added weights and find a substitute that looks better :)
 

Scottie-TX

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Here are some available in hobby shops here: 7gm blocks. Above is one that I cast by making a shallow trough and pouring it. You could even countersink your weight partially to make it more cosmetic. 73441.jpg
 

Ajay

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Hi Scottie
I have used the same kind of small bolck ( I think it is 10 gm ) then wraped with lead srips. The problem is that if the size is little big then it hits on the spiral gong when the pendulum swings,so keeping nearly 50 gms in a limited space without touching the gong is a problem.

As you did,I am planing to cast one, Is it ok,if I keep the weights on both the sides of the stick ( back and front ).

Thank you
Regards
Ajay



Scottie-TX;498154 said:
Here are some available in hobby shops here: 7gm blocks. Above is one that I cast by making a shallow trough and pouring it. You could even countersink your weight partially to make it more cosmetic.
73442.jpg
 

leeinv66

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Ajay, if space is a problem, add another block of weight further down the stick! And yes, you could weight either the front or back.
 

Ajay

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Thank you all for your valuable advice, I will get back to you one I complete the task.
Regards
Ajay

Scottie-TX;498180 said:
You could also slot the stick, and insert the weight almost invisbbly, front to back!
 

Frank Hardin

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Ajay, just another suggestion to calibrating the pendulum you have. Mark the backside of the pendulum stick where the pendulum bob has topped out. Take the bob off and use 2 inch masking tape about 4 inches wide and tape the bob to the front side of the pendulum stick, postition the bob about 1/4 inch higher than your mark. Check the rate after a couple of hours. If not fast enough move it up another 1/4 inch, you will finally hit the spot where it will be too fast, this will let you know how much of the stick needs to be shorten. I would suggest at this time refitting the ajusting screw to the bottom end of the pendulum stick. If it is a marriage no one will know unless the you have to remove too much of the pendulum stick and it looks too short. Most of the Vienna Regulators I have worked on have between 1 to 3 inches of space between the bottom of the regulator screw and the floor.
Frank
 

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