Very new to pocket watches. Input on the latest watched I inherited....?

Discussion in 'European & Other Pocket Watches' started by bjmendelson, Mar 30, 2020.

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  1. bjmendelson

    bjmendelson Registered User

    Feb 19, 2020
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    I have acquired another addition from my uncles collection. I thought this one was quite pretty. Any feedback would be greatly appreciated!

    TIA
    Bonnie A98676BA-3213-4121-A327-C536010C2E69.jpeg 054FAF2E-2ABE-43D0-9495-9EFBA30347C0.jpeg E0D07665-938F-4486-B942-9C61A4DCF636.jpeg 3D9B0100-2FA7-4207-A707-9DB02D29E27C.jpeg 07899047-AE66-445A-AE67-F6A458951F1E.jpeg 38121A2D-B6CC-4639-B500-64A5661F65AF.jpeg
     
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  2. Allan C. Purcell

    Allan C. Purcell Registered User
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    I had a look at "MIKROLISK" on the web, and if you put in Mathey it will tell you that there was Mathey-Tissot or E.Mathey-Tissot-That could be your watchmaker? Of interest was the case, stamped Coin silver. I wondered if that was stamped when it arrived in America?

    Allan.
     
  3. Dr. Jon

    Dr. Jon Moderator
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    The Mathey was made for the US market. Its case may also have been US made but it looks Swiss to me. It may well have been assayed and stamped in the US. There are some gouges in teh case body near teh balance where material may have been removed for assay.

    The Mathey watch is a fairly standard mid grade Geneva bar type movement. Its balance is partially cut to make it look temperature compensated, which it is not. This was fairly common with Swiss watches. The movement style is 1850 to 1860

    The other watch is an earlier Geneva Bar movement pattern and a cylinder movement circa 1840.
     
  4. John Matthews

    John Matthews Registered User
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    To be honest, when I looked at the first case I was thought it must be American, both from its style and from the Warranted Coin Silver stamp. I therefore tried to identify an American maker from what I take to be the maker's mark [FG&Co] - I couldn't find a match.

    However, I found this patent stamp on the Mikrolisk site

    bildmarke_louisrozat3.jpg

    listed for Louis Razat of La Chaux-de-Fond as a manufacturer of movements and casings. While the relationship between Razat and FG&Co is not obvious, the patent date of December 1880, is later than the date Dr Jon ascribes to the movement and without knowing anything about Razat, I just wonder whether this is indeed a Swiss made case by Razat.

    I hope Enrico and Dr Jon will be able to confirm or reject this possibility. I would be particularly interested to understand those features that Dr Jon identified to infer the case may be of Swiss origin and thoughts as to whether, if the case is Swiss, whether it and other cases may have been imported already stamped 'Coin'.

    John
     
  5. Dr. Jon

    Dr. Jon Moderator
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    I still lean to the case being Swiss. I could not find FG in Nieblings book on US casemekers, unless it is Fred Gruen, very very unlikely.

    1880 is very late unless this was very old stock but the patent may be much later than this watch case.

    It could have been stamped coin silver in Switzerland, since there was no law against stamping anything but a hallmark but the stamp look a lot like US stamps I have seen.
     
  6. Barney Green

    Barney Green Registered User

    Jan 19, 2017
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    The fact that the trademark was registered in 1880 does not mean that it did not exist years before. 1880 was the first year when it was possible to register trademarks in Switzerland, so almost all trademarks registered in that year have been in use before.
     
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  7. Barney Green

    Barney Green Registered User

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    Something to add:
    Louis Rozat lived Rue Leopold Robert No.41 in La-Chaux-de-Fonds.
    Rue Leopold Robert No. 40 Frédéric-Louis Guyot was running his shop, he was married to Fanny Rozat. More than just coincidence...
    I would not wonder if F.G.& Co has been Frederic Guyot's marking which Louis Rozat took over or registered for him. Louis Rozat registered two trademarks in 1880, one being the F.G. & Co. and the other has been a L R in a shield.
     
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  8. John Matthews

    John Matthews Registered User
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    Barney - I commend you on your research and inference.

    It would be really good if someone could post additional examples of Swiss cases with the F.G. & Co. mark and substantiate your inference.

    John
     
  9. eri231

    eri231 Registered User

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    #9 eri231, Mar 31, 2020
    Last edited: Mar 31, 2020
    sorry wrong post
     
  10. Barney Green

    Barney Green Registered User

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    I believe that the plain F.G. & Co marking originally belonged to Frederic Guyot and his son Frederic-Louis Guyot and companians. Louis Rozat has been the nephew living next door and he took over the trademark in the 1870s and registered it 1880.
    Here the registration of the two trademarks:
    Rozat trademarks.JPG

    1880 Louis Rozat moved from the original place to a new location, we can see that he was specialised in watches for the English market.

    Davoine 1880.JPG

    1879 he was still located in Rue Leopold Robert:
    Davoine 1879.JPG
    Between 1872 and 1875 Louis Rozat took over the business from his father. First mentioning of Louis Rozat running the business has been 1875:

    Davoine 1875.JPG
    Same year the Guyots have moved their business to another location in the Rue de la Demoiselle 4.

    1871 you can see that Guyot and Rozat had been neighbours:
    Davoine 1871.JPG

    And with the birth of a daughter of the Guyot Rozat couple in 1866 we know about them being relatives:
    Guyot-Rozat.JPG
     
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