Verge Watch Cocks

Allan C. Purcell

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Today I have altered the information on frames 21 and 37. Both have the name, George Jamison. I also notice this PDF does not show the numbers of the frames, I will try to have them there on the next update.

Allan.
 

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Allan C. Purcell

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VERGE BALANCE COCKS. by Cyril Woods.

While looking for information on the above I came across this two-page piece, sent to the NAWCC in 1950.
It starts, "When I was a boy in England, my father, a jeweler there, occasionally bought old verge watches for the gold or silver content of their cases, Even the movements usually found their way into the melting pot. The bright yellow gold plating, applied during manufacture to protect the brass plates from oxidation, was well worth salvaging. The precious metal in pretty balance-cocks being of negligible value, I was allowed to unscrew and keep them. At the time, their appeal to me was no greater than that of the coins and stamps they joined in my untidy hobby drawer".

Though Mr. Woods, I think when he became a jeweler, had a large collection of verge balance cocks, and even went on to copy them for jewelry he was making. (He explains in the letter why) What Mr. Woods never found out, like many others, was Where, When, and who.

This piece was put together by the editor in 1950, out of a number of letters he received from Mr. Woods. It is well worth a read, What sticks in my mind is the same questions I have been asking myself, and many more members too. This week I was able to read the article by Vincent V. Cherico Jr. in the latest Bulletin. It's a wonderful saga, full of many things I have not seen, the work involved is massive, and must have taken years to put together. I look forward to the second part and more surprises in May-June.

Allan.
 

PatH

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VERGE BALANCE COCKS. by Cyril Woods.

While looking for information on the above I came across this two-page piece, sent to the NAWCC in 1950.
It starts, "When I was a boy in England, my father, a jeweler there, occasionally bought old verge watches for the gold or silver content of their cases, Even the movements usually found their way into the melting pot. The bright yellow gold plating, applied during manufacture to protect the brass plates from oxidation, was well worth salvaging. The precious metal in pretty balance-cocks being of negligible value, I was allowed to unscrew and keep them. At the time, their appeal to me was no greater than that of the coins and stamps they joined in my untidy hobby drawer".

Though Mr. Woods, I think when he became a jeweler, had a large collection of verge balance cocks, and even went on to copy them for jewelry he was making. (He explains in the letter why) What Mr. Woods never found out, like many others, was Where, When, and who.

This piece was put together by the editor in 1950, out of a number of letters he received from Mr. Woods. It is well worth a read, What sticks in my mind is the same questions I have been asking myself, and many more members too. This week I was able to read the article by Vincent V. Cherico Jr. in the latest Bulletin. It's a wonderful saga, full of many things I have not seen, the work involved is massive, and must have taken years to put together. I look forward to the second part and more surprises in May-June.

Allan.
Thanks for sharing the above from the 1950s, as well as your document showing the actual watches, Allan. If you don't want to wait for the mail, the May/June issue is now available to members online. I haven't received my hard copy yet, but did read Mr. Cherico's article over the weekend.

There was also a Bulletin Supplement printed c1952 called "A Study of Verge Watchcocks and Bridges" by Ernest Cramer and Joseph Sternfield. It is also available to members online under the Publications tab > Supplements.

Lots of great work coming together here.

Pat
 
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Allan C. Purcell

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With the encouragement of PatH, I read the supplements she advised, and to my surprise, we were for once given a name.

In the article of 1952 by Ernest A. Cramer and Joseph Sternfeld, "A Study of Verge Watchcocks and Bridges"

"The designs of the German examples of this early period are made up of thin sprays. leaves and flowers in a style comparable to that of Aldegrever, a German artist engraver, /ca. 1502-1558) and whose work may have inspired the patterns. "


bb-11.jpg bb-12.jpg


Looking at Heinrich Aldegraver´s work it easy to see why, though a great engraver he was not alone.

In Part two of "The English-Style Watch-Cock re-Examined: James I Through George III, Part 2 by Vincent V. Cherico Jr. I am still trying to absorb all he has to say, a really wonderful search, I feel we all should support his work.

To be cont.... I am off to find more of these German engravers.
 
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Allan C. Purcell

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Matthias Zünt is on the second page of the script, the whole book is not on this site. (Under "The Iron-The Beginnings of Etching"

Zünt sometimes Zundt was an artist and engraver of Nurburg. Worth a read.
 

Allan C. Purcell

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It appears that every collector as far back as the middle of the 19th century, have asked the same questions, when we're watch-cocks first made, and who made them, and where were they made. Basic questions, that only creates more questions.

We will probably never know the answers to those three questions, for instance, we don´t know who made the first watch, but we do know there are strong claims that Peter Henlein of Nürnburg made the first small watch that was worn around the neck, and looks more like a small barrel with a dial seen through the holes at the top. "You could say the Sputnick of its time" From here though, is the only place at the moment to go forward. History tells us the whole industry of watchmaking started there in Nürnburg, Germany.

bb-10.jpeg There is no clear evidence that Henlein made this, it is thought to be made by him.

In part two of Vincent Cherico´s article, he mentions the watch by Nicolas Bernard of Paris, and in my notes, this is what I had to say about this watch.

"
bb-7.JPG Now we are getting somewhere. this little bauble is still worn around the neck, and also ticks, and it has, this time a cock. The name on there is Nickolas Bernard, Paris. (this from the book "the J.P.Morgan Collection") )An aside, in the book for the masses, all the photographs of his collection were in black and white. though in his copy they were all hand-painted, so little portraits).


000-44.jpg The Little Portraits.

I then moved on to another watch in the collection. (From my notes)

bb-8.JPG Notice the cock is a little larger and is thought to have been made by David Ramsey c 1610-25 (hand painted of course).
(J.P.Morgan collection). Ramsey a Scotchman was the first Master of the Clockmakers Company n London.

(Loomes, Complete 21st Century Edition)
"David Ramsey b. 1585 supposedly in Dundee (Scotland) worked in France then came to London (Tothill Street, Westminster, later in Holborn within two doors of the (wounded Hart) about 1610. Appointed Kings Clockmaker in 1613, when he was granted a pension. In 1618 received a grant of Office of Chief Clockmaker to the King. In 1619 received a grant of denization, because he was born in Scotland. (denization ?- I think he meant Denationalize). First Master of the clockmaker Company in 1632, by whom he was known as Squire Ramsey, bur scarcely ever attended except between 1652 and 1654, when suffered under the Commonwealth and voted himself grants from, CC funds. Died 1660. Sometimes signed, "David Ramsey Scotus".

My notes carry on with.

"I ask myself, do we need to go further? Did any of those watchmakers make the whole watch? We just don´t know. What we do know is that cocks were being made in Germany, France, and I would say, a little later in England. This says to me that watch cocks were made in Europe first, and must not forget Holland and Italy. "

We could here add a few notes on Thomas Tompion. He was born in 1639, there are no known records about his childhood, and in fact, the first we know of him is when he signed the or became a member of the Watchmakers Company in 1671. If he learned his trade in the UK in the usual manner it would be b.1639 + 14 +7. he would have been 21 in 1660. No one can say where he was till he joined the CC in 1671. Some would say he could have been in Europe for those eleven years. It could be he was taken there earlier if he had no apprenticeship? He died in 1713, at the age of 74, a good run in those days. (PS: J.P.Morgan´s nickname was " The Man who bought the World" (Behind his back) yet having all those wonderful early watches, there is not one by Tompion).

To be cont....

Allan
 
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Allan C. Purcell

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If there is anyone, I think would agree with this so far, I would say R.W. Symonds in his book "Thomas Tompion".

Chapter One. Background.

It is difficult to form a picture of what was taking place in the handicrafts of clock and watchmaking in England during the sixteenth century, for so little evidence remains to decide whether, for instance, the elaborate clocks described in Henry VIII´s Wardrobe Inventory, and the richly ornamented and jewelled watches listed in that of Queen Elizabeth´s were bought abroad or made in England; and if made in England, then the question arises, whether they were the work of alien or English craftsmen.

What we do know is that the crude iron clocks which, by the sixteenth century, were fitted into most church towers throughout the country, were made by English blacksmiths and that these craftsmen must have been responsible for the smaller scale domestic clocks, which are occasionally found in sixteenth-century inventories and described as à clocke and a bell" or á clocke with a frame`. The mechanism and frame of this blacksmith-made chamber clock were, however, of the greatest simplicity compared with the clocks owned by Henry VIII.


Next is the list of Henry the VIIIth. in old English. The following text makes it easier to understand.

"The making of clocks which showed the changes of the moon, the ebb and flow of the tides, the days of the year, the position of the planets in the zodiac, and which were encased in copper and gilt frames, decorated with engraving and enamelling, and sometimes set in glass cases, was far beyond the skill of a blacksmith. Clocks as elaborate as these must, therefore, have come within the province of another craft, the technique of which displayed greater precision and the workmanship of higher order. Such craft can easily be identified with that of the locksmith.

On the continent, those locksmiths who concentrated on clockmaking, became, in the course of time, specialists in the branch, and were called, inevitably, clockmaker. Later, the finer workmanship of watchmaking produced a further division in the craft.


I recommend this book to those who wish to know more on this subject.

The work of Locksmiths in England never achieved the standard of Continental locksmiths, therefore clockmaking in this island remained chiefly in the hands of Blacksmiths; It was not until the early part of the seventeenth century that the iron clocks of English blacksmiths began to take on those finer qualities which distinguished the work of continental clockmaker. To a great extent, this was due to the foreign craftsmen who came to live and work here, Their greater skill and new techniques in clock and watchmaking soon spread, chiefly through their English apprentices who, having served their term, and inspired by the knowledge and skill they had acquired, started on their own account.

This would indicate that the above would apply to those like Ramsey and Tompion, who went to Europe earlier.

To be cont........
 

Allan C. Purcell

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From R.W.Symonds 1969.

The Little knowledge that we have been able to gather from written records and a few extant clocks and watches of the Elizabethan school of clock and watchmaking, indicates that the English product was far behind, both in quality and ingenuity of design, the best work of French and German Masters.

The Rev. William Harrison, who wrote his "Description of England" In 1589, expressed a contrary view.

" The articiall varieties of which kind of ware (Clocks and astronomical instruments) is so great here in England, as no place else (in mine opinion) can be comparable therein to this Ile. I will not speak of cost bestowed upon them in perle and stone, neither of the value of mettal, whereof the haute been made, as gold, silver, &c: and almost no abbeie or religious house without some of them. This onelie shall suffice to note here (as by the waie) that as antiquities hath delighted in these things, so in our time pompe and excesses apendeth all, and nothing is regarded that briingeth in no bread. (
Written of course in old English)

"It is strange that, after the dissolution of the Monasteries and the dispersal of their òrnaments, Harrison should write as if the valuable clocks and watches- in the sixteenth century the term `Clocks `covered watches as well- we're still in their possession. But the clocks and watches he had in mind were, anyhow, mainly imported and not of English make.

To be cont..........
 

Allan C. Purcell

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Since reading the about I thought I would look up Nicholas Urseau, who Symonds says was Clock & Watchmaker to Queen Elizabeth I.

Loomes has this to say in his book "Clockmakers of Britain 1286-1700."

Urseau, Nicholas. London. Spelling variants include Orseau, Ursheaw, and Ursheus, He was possibly of French origin, working here by 1531, a denizen clockmaker in 1544. He worked initially at Hampton Court, then Westminster in 1565, and Charing Cross 1568, when he was robbed of a clock. He was a clockmaker to Henry VIII, Edward VI and Queen Elizabeth I. In 1573 he and his wife Joan leased property in the parish of St martin in the Fields in the manor of Westminster. He died in 1590."

According to Symonds, there was a son of the same name.

Allan.
 

Allan C. Purcell

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Chris, thank you for that, if you could do the same with all those others I would be more than grateful.

ww-9.JPG Going from the top left, I would say very early indeed, could be dutch c 1570, top right English about one hundred years later, and the bottom one somewhere around 1690-1700.

ww-10.JPG I am not up to French cocks as of yet and do find them hard to date without the case or makers names. I do like that centre-left depicting the Garden of Eden, and feel it is very old?

ww-13.JPG The two on the left are English/ Dutch late 18th century, and the French cock could be much earlier?

Now looking forward to the opened plastic bags.

Grateful,

Allan
 

zedric

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I haven’t read it, but there is a whole book on the subject by Tardy - called “les coqs de montres”
 

Allan C. Purcell

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Hi Zedric, I do have a copy, and it's one of the problems I am looking at. The catalogue is very useful but only a guesstimate, it is after all over a hundred years old, and they did not have the instant information that we have today. My efforts are much the same, I have come to the conclusion that without an original case and movement, it is almost impossible. When you just have one cock in front of you, I think it is lucky if you can get near ten years, one way or the other. Though the more I try, the more I am learning. I hope more people will send in photographs of their balance cocks.

Regards,

Allan.:)
 
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aucaj

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Hi Allan,

Last year, a huge 350+ watch coqs framed display from a closed museum was sold at auction for $15k. The display had examples marked out by epoch from early 1600s to the 1800s. Their catalog was not published and the lot photos were removed from the website after the auction. I thought I had saved the catalog photos in my references, but they don't seem to be in the file. I will request a copy of the photos from the auction house.

R/
Chris
 

Leigh Extence

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In the first part of the bulletin article by Vince he mentions the private collection of watch cocks belonging to Clive Ponsford.
Following Clive's death a few years ago I became the owner of his archive of research material and various collections which included the 200+ watch cocks. I am going to photograph all these in the near future for Vince, so if these images would be of interest to post on here I'd be quite happy to do so.
 

aucaj

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Hi Allan,

This is the only partial photo I have. This will give you an idea. They are sectioned by the reign of a particular king. I must have overwritten the rest of the photos by accident. I have sent a request to the auction house for all the photos. I will let you know if I they can be retrieved. There were some very interesting pieces that were tucked away by this museum and rediscovered.... one of which is the earliest known watch by Julien Le Roy.

R/
Chris

coqs (2).jpg
 
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Allan C. Purcell

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images would be of interest to post on here I'd be quite happy to do so.
Leigh, Thank you very much, that is just what we are looking for. You will see on the latest update on Powerpoint 27, that things are moving alone. the more we see the more we learn.

R/

Allan.

Note + Update

When looking at the powerpoint pages, and you find blanks, they are there for members comments, if you have comments please send them to me and I will install them.

Allan.
 

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Allan C. Purcell

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This search for the early watch cocks, is a sort of up and down, with no straight lines. Going back to Henlein was probably a mistake, but one fact that can't be disputed is Henlein was a German citizen. Born Nürnburg 1485 died August 1542. That he made small portable clocks, there is little doubt, though none seem to have survived, yet only 18 years later, another German made the coach watch below. Again no cock as we know them, but hour striking, and alarm. All this watch needed was a change of escapement, and I think I am getting near to the first cocks, and maybe a name.

zz-10.JPG zz-9.JPG zz-8.JPG zz-7.JPG zz-6.JPG zz-5.JPG

This is the earliest with a cock I was able to find in the Basel Museum collection from the Nathan-Rupp collection of coach watches, and though probably not the first cock, but getting closer. Dated by the museum 1570-80. By Hans Grüber, Nurmberg Germany.

zz-11.JPG

Another of about the same date, by Johannes Buschmann, Augsburg, Germany.


To be cont........
 

Allan C. Purcell

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B. Cuper Blois, France. Circa 1600.

Movement imperfect, and has been altered recently (Writing in 1900) barrel and ratchet being entirely modern, nameplate and ornamental cock, original.
Metal watch, enclosed in a clear rock-crystal case of the shape of an escallop shell, the back, front, and sides of the case being of rock-crystal, and the back and front-hinged to the watch. Movement signed "B. Cuper Bloy". The face of the watch is of engraved metal-work, but the numeral-ring is of silver; the engraving represents a rabbit, various insects, and flowers, and the head of a cherub, and is all carried out in the style of Etienne Delaune. There is metalwork around the case, engraved in leaf-pattern design, holding the rock-crystal in its place. The watch measures one and three of eighth inches long but has a fixed finial at the foot and a larger one at the head of the shell. The latter one encloses a movable ring, and including the two finials, the case measures two and three-quarters in length, its width being on and a half inches.


Collection of Prince Pierre Soltykoff.
Number in the Marfels collection, 1516.
See colour Plate N0.5 in the real vellum edition.
See Gravure Plate No. IV in the Japanese vellum edition and No. VII in the ordinary edition.


(Sorry you will just have to look at mine)


zz-13.JPG zz-12.JPG


It gets really interesting now, but first, we must know where Blois is.


zz-15.JPG

Looking at this map, you will see it is nowhere near the Swiss or the Germans, or even the English, and even further from Holland. One has to ask don´t you think?

Cuper is the name of a renowned family of watchmakers who made themselves celebrated by the introduction of the watchmaking industry into Blois, an industry which spread from that town into a great many places in Europe- So far as can be known the founder of the family. Barthelemy. was born in Germany about 1530, emigrated to France, and settled down in Blois. He appears to have been a man of noble birth. He had two sons: Paul, the founder of the watchmaking family, and Pierre, who also worked as a watchmaker in Blois. Both these two men were sent by their father to Germany to study, in Nuremberg, the art which Peter Hele had discovered, of making portable watches. At the end of their period of study, they returned to Blois, and their productions in the sixteenth and seventeenth centuries attained to European celebrity. Barthelemy Cuper was known as Lord of Chastenay, and in some documents is called "the noble Barthelemy Chastenay" and in others "the noble Barthelemy Chastenmy de Cuper", but in consequence of the law which required any title to be dropped on the occasion of its owner entering trade, the head of the family appears to have relinquished his title and assumed the simpler name of Cuper. This particular law was repealed by Louis XIV. After the revocation of the Edict of Nantes many protestant families left Blois, others remained and became Catholic, and amongst those who accepted the Catholic faith were various members of the Cuper family.
Paul, the eldest son of Barthelemy, was born about 1560 and died before 1613. He had seven children. of whom four were sons. He appears to have married Madeleine Picault, and the references to the baptism of his children appear in the Blois records from 1590. The eldest child was named after his grandfather Bartelemy. We do not know whom he married, but his children were baptised between the years 1616 and 1634, and in a document preserved in the archives of Blois dated 1618, he is declared as "horlogeur de la Regne" He is said to have had twelve children, but nothing is known at present of their history. The second son, Paul, married Marie Souefve, and his children were baptised between the years 1614 and 1621. He is mentioned as "horolger commissary of France", and one of his daughters married a watchmaker, Jean Lebance, and resided at Orléans. The third son was named Sulpice and was a Privy Councillor and controller of rents in Bordeaux. He had two daughters, one of whom, Marguerite, married Jean Petitot the enameller, and the other, Jacques Bordier, his partner, cousin to Petitot´s first master. These girls were cousins to Isaac Gribelin the watchmaker and had children, who so far as is known were not watchmakers. The fourth son was Michel, who married in 1613, but we do not know the name of his wife. His children were baptised between 1614 and 1629, and he died before 1634. He was a watchmaker of great repute and appointed Gemtlmanof the Chamber to the Duke of Orléans. In the history of Blois, written by Monsieur de la Saussaye there are references to the persons who practised the artistic professions in that place and especially to the clockmaker. In 1685 he says, there were thirty-eight clockmaker in Blois, all declared as men of high repute, working at their trade, and in the following year there were seventeen more, making fifty-five in one small town. Monsieur de Saussaye draws particular attention to the various members of the Cuper family who pursued their work in Blois and says that until a comparatively recent date there was to be seen an old wooden image over the elliptical-headed doorway of a house in Blois and over the following inscription. "PAVL CVPER ORLOGEVR DV ROY"

This was all written in 1900.

Allan
 
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Allan C. Purcell

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So Reading through Rebecca Struthers thesis "Unravelling the myth of the "Dutch forgery" I have to admit that she spent a long time researching her subject, and in the main, she is correct that many of the verge watches we collect today were not always made in England, and that Dutch fakes were not made in Holland, (though only giving superficial time to talk about those fakes made in Coventry, at the same time). I think if she was to re-write this thesis today she would have changed her mind about quite a few points. In fact, I would look forward to such a re-write, the subject is fascinating and well worth the time. Î would also hope she would leave out unfair comments on other researchers that did not agree with her, the remarks on the book by Denis Moore "British Clockmakers & Watchmakers Apprentice Records" was totally uncalled for. The word British says it all. (Pages 47-48)


http://www.open-access.bcu.ac.uk/9554/1/Unravelling%20the%20myth%20of%20the%20%27Dutch%20forgery%27.pdf

Allan.
 

Allan C. Purcell

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Moving on again to early watchmakers, it could be the first English watchmaker of English birth was one Bartholomew Nusam (Later spelt Bartholomew Newsam) Below is the information given to J.P.Morgan for his collection of early European watches.

Bartholomew Nusam Circa 1560.

Exceedingly important circular clock-watch, in its original leather case. The movement is not actually signed but is of unusually fine workmanship. There are no screws whatever, and the spring bolts for attaching the movement to the case are remarkably fine work. The balance cock is of steel. The watch is dome-shaped, the dial being at the top of the dome, and of silver. The dome is pierced and through the piercing, the bell can be seen.
The movement can be inspected through the moveable base of the clock, or examined by two small doors, which open at the side against the pinion. On the base of the clock is the signature within an ornamental tablet "Bartholomew Nvsam (sic)" The case has a lock to it, but the upper part of it opens separately with hinges and a snap, to reveal the face of the watch. It is of Leather, decorated in blind tooling. The whole of the metal case of the watch is richly engraved with classical heads separated by foliage around the border.

Size, 3 inches in height, 10 inches in circumference, 1 and 3 quarters inches in diameter of the dial.

This watch resembles in appearance one illustrated by Britten. It is an exceedingly good example of the work of one of the earliest English makers. There is not a great deal known of the history of Bartholomew Newsam, as the name is spelt in the records, Britten conjectures that he was a Yorkshireman, but in 1568 he had attained to a good position in London, for in that year he acquired a Crown lease for thirty years of premises in the Strand near Somerset House, where he resided till his death. The State Papers record a grant in 1572 B.N. (who no doubt was the clockmaker in question) of the office of a clockmaker to Queen Elizabeth, in reversion after the death or surrender of N.U., evidently Nicholas Urseau. Newsam is spoken of as clock-keeper to the Queen in 1582, and in 1583 there is a warrant under the Privy Searl for payments made to him for "manding clocks during the past year." Under date 1590 is the grant to Newsam of the office of the clockmaker to James the first, in place of Nicholas Urseau who had died, and Newsam then seems to have both appointments, as clockmaker and clock keeper, but he only held them for three years, as he died in 1593- His will, dated 1586, is quoted by Britten, and it contains several interesting allusions. (
"Old clocks & watches" third edition. London 1911+ if, 52 p. 67)
He bequeathed a clock to his apprentice, many of his tools to John Newsam, a clockmaker of York, who was probably his brother, and all the rest of his tools to his son Edward, on the understanding that he became a clockmaker, as his father was, and if he did not, then the tools were to be sold. He distributed various gifts of clocks to his friends, giving to one "asonne dyall of copper gylte", to another, "one cristall Jewell with a watch in it garnished with golde," to another "one watch-clock in a silken purse in a sonne dyall to stand upon a post in his garden," and yet another "a chamber clocke of fyve markets price."Britten very carefully describes the mechanism of one of Newsam´s clocks, and he also refers to this actual watch and its case, pointing out that the leather case implies that the watch was intended for travelling. The work of Newsam is exceedingly rare, and this collection is fortunate in possessing two examples of it, both of them in good condition, and original in every respect.

zz-16.JPG zz-17.JPG These of course are not what we would accept as watches, clock-watch yes. There is no chance these would be worn around the neck. The influence though is that of Henlein in Germany. So I would say from at least the early 16th century we have a technical industry spreading across Europe, and we will see that one hundred years later, the start of the industrial revolution, based of course on clockwork.

(I found a copy of Britten 1911 third edition on Zab, it´s in the post, will comment when it arrives)
 

Allan C. Purcell

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I notice the above was written on the 25th of May, and the book arrived today the 5th of June. I don´t know where the book has been since 1911, I do know it was at one time sold by Malcolm Gardner, 12 Earnshaw Street, St Giles, London WC2. Since then it has acquired the strong smell of smoked eel. Thank goodness all the text is in good order, and a real surprise was that the photographs in this book are very good. Quite a lot of the older books on Horology have awful photographs.

zz-50.JPG

On page 66 to 67 he says, " On the inside of the bottom cover is inscribed, "P.H. Nor...1505" This lead to the supposition that "Nor" stood for Nurimbergae, "at Nurenberg" and that the clock was the handiwork of Hele. The plates of the movement are of steel, and the piece appears to be evidently a production of the sixteenth century, but the balance and its accessories are comparatively modern, and it would be unsafe to rely on the inscription as conclusive evidence of authenticity" Its a pity nobody listened in 1911. We could have saved a forest used for the paper on that little clock.

Allan.

To be cont.....
 

Allan C. Purcell

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Still reading Britten´s book, and enjoying the ride, many things impress me about the content and one that stands out are the scale drawings of these early watches, and it slowly dawned on me that I had seen many of them elsewhere. What is missing at the beginning is a lack of information thanking those who had helped him, because he could never have done it all on his own. Titbits can be found among the script, but as yet, I have not found out how he got to get permission to publish over eighty pictures of the J.P. Morgan collection. All listed in the index.

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I am hoping that somewhere in the text he tells us who did the drawings. Does anyone know?

To be cont......
 

aucaj

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Warning: These images may be disturbing for most horological collectors :oops:

In the 19th century, a trend was started in Europe that involved making jewelry from the balance cocks and bridges of old watches. The market demand grew so strong that copies of cocks were being casted to fuel this fad. Sadly, even museums got into the business. The museum at Mont St. Michel produced jewelry on a grand scale to sell as souvenirs. I have attached a few advertisements from the museum below.

I think a lot collectors believe museums will be the best caretakers of their donated collections. However, museums have no obligation to ever put these donations on display. In fact, they are free to do whatever they want with them in most cases including sell them during a global pandemic.

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aucaj

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The museum at Mont St. Michel did not turn all of the balance cocks and bridges into jewelry. They exhibited some on display. Unfortunately, they did consider the entire watch with any regard. I have attached a photo of a large display from the museum that was sold last year.

It would seem that the museum was processing a large number of donated items to turn into displays or gift shop souvenirs.

One has to wonder what they did with all those discarded watch movements:???:

... maybe they just threw them in a pit somewhere on the property...

... I'm taking my metal detector and catching the first flight to Mont St. Michel!

Cheers,
Chris

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Allan C. Purcell

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Spindelkloben – kleine Fenster in die Zeitgeschichte (A Small window in the history of Time)
5. März 2020 ~ uhrenmuseum
Taschenuhrwerk mit filigran verziertem Unruhkloben. J. F. Bürger, Blankenburg um 1800. Inv.Nr. K-0852
Die Entwicklung der Taschenuhren verlief im 18. Jahrhundert stürmisch. Gab es um 1700 noch viele Uhren mit nur einem Stundenzeiger, so war am Ende des Jahrhunderts selbst der Sekundenzeiger keine Seltenheit mehr. Das tickende Herz all dieser Taschenuhren blieb jedoch die hin- und herschwingende Unruh. Damit diese beim Öffnen des Gehäuses keinen Schaden nahm, wurde sie geschützt durch den „Unruhkloben”.

Diese Unruhkloben prägten das Aussehen des Uhrwerks. Entsprechend wurden sie filigran ausgesägt und verziert. Dies war oft Frauenarbeit. So gibt es ein Portrait von Barbara Baumann, der Gattin eines Friedberger Uhrmachers, auf dem sie mit der Säge an einem Unruhkloben arbeitet.



Porträt der Friedberger Uhrmachersgattin Barbara Baumann (1727-1798), 1768, Öl auf Leinwand, Museum im Wittelsbacher Schloss Friedberg. Foto: Andreas Brücklmair.

Well, it had to happen, I have always thought that the cocks must have first been made in Europe. Going back to the beginning of watchmaking was the only way to go. The other day a friend of mine pointed me to a small museum in Germany. The Wittelsbacker Museum. Friedberg. So I started to search for this Museum on the net, and I found the blog above which tells the story in a few words-

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My Translation of the above.

SpindelKloben und Spindelbrücken ( Verge watch cock and Bridge cock)

Friedberg was a centre for the making of Verge watch cocks and bridges. Thereby the fine handwork on a flat piece of metal.
these then used for a protective cover for the balance and balance spring at the same time, on pocket watches and coach watches.
the verge cock has only one screw, the bridge cock has two screws to fix then to the top plate.

The Friedberger watchmakers finished the cocks till the middle of the 18th century. these then were sent to England and exported
wherever watches were made.


The wives of many watchmakers turned their hands to making these small wonders, and it was found that patience and skill were far better than that of their husbands. The photograph above depicts the wife of Andreas Brucklmier ( Barbra Bowmann) working on a French-style watch cock. (1727-1798) In 1768 the painting was made, and she is seen in her Sunday clothes, no doubt that her family were very fond of her skills. The tool she is using is very much like a modern saw, though my impression is the blade could be quickly changed for another. (Kloben-Sage in German) More on this later.

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To be cont.........

Allan.

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Allan C. Purcell

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French written with lots of b/w pictures.
Hi Brunod, thank you. Can I just quote from a very nice man named Dennis Moore, who wrote the excellent book British Clockmakers & Watchmakers Apprentice Records 1710-1810. "We are all seeking the same truths, and we all should wish to share them with others"
Thank you for sharing.

R/.
Allan.
 
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Allan C. Purcell

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I managed to find the husband of Barbara Baumann, on the 19th of June 1758 Maria Barbara Mahlen, married Sebastian Baumann. (Barbara´s father was also a watchmaker).

Sebastian Bauman was born at Hadersried, in the county of Dachau, after his apprenticeship he worked as a journeyman, in the year 1752 he was known to have worked in Graz as a journeyman. we have seen he married in Friedberg in 1758, and he and his wife worked there till his death in 1805.

(Sebastian Baumann is well known throughout the world for his watches, though in the main he is known for carriage watches)


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A carriage watch by Barbara´s husband, she more than likely made the bridge cock. c1750-60

Allan.

To be cont.....

PS; In Jürgen Abeler´s book "Meister der Uhrmacherkunst" There is no watchmaker with the name Mahlen, but there is Leopold Mahl Graz, in Friedberg gelernt (trained) :???:
 

Allan C. Purcell

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Allan C. Purcell

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Thanks to Chris, I have put the extension on here, will comment later. I am reading up on Coach-Watches from the 1500s, stack-freed of course.

Example, c1560 South Germany.Maker not known.

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To be cont....

Allan.
 
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Allan C. Purcell

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I have decided to leave this thread for now, though I could return to it sometime in the future. I think some of the questions asked at the beginning are now answered, the first watches were made in Germany, and that follows, so were watch cocks. We have also seen who made these cocks and where they were sold, plus how they were made. There is of course, as always, more research required, and if I find out more I will post it. Though this search was great fun, and for me enlightening, and hope so for others, my only regret is not one single member send me details of a watch cock he liked, for the file below..

Update.
 

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