Verge fusee. Information about... Manby hadleigh.

Discussion in 'European & Other Pocket Watches' started by DRINFEAL, Sep 1, 2017.

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  1. DRINFEAL

    DRINFEAL Registered User

    Oct 23, 2014
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    It would be awesome if anyone could help me out with any information about the maker Manby Hadleigh.
    Any help greatly appreciated.
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
     
  2. gmorse

    gmorse Registered User
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    Hi DRINFEAL,

    The 'maker' or more likely the retailer is Manby, who worked in Hadleigh which is near Ipswich in Suffolk. He didn't make the watch. Some clear pictures of the hallmarks inside the case should confirm the date and the case maker, but it appears to date from around 1800.

    Regards,

    Graham
     
  3. DRINFEAL

    DRINFEAL Registered User

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    Yes, 1800.
     
  4. DRINFEAL

    DRINFEAL Registered User

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    Baillie's or Loome's or Britten books mention?
     
  5. gmorse

    gmorse Registered User
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    Hi DRINFEAL,

    Britten's has two Manbys; Edward, 1828, London, and John, 1833, Skipton in Yorkshire. Both will most probably have been local watchmakers/jewellers, and whether either had any connection with your man in Hadleigh is not possible to say.

    English watches at this period were nearly all the product of one of the workshops in the Liverpool or Coventry areas, who made everything from 'raw' frames for later finishing, many in the big London firms' workshops, through to complete watches engraved with whatever the customer specified. Local 'watchmakers' would have ordered watches like this, and whilst they undertook repairs and modifications, they would never have made the watches they sold; as many as 100 separate specialist craftspeople would have contributed to a finished watch.

    Regards,

    Graham
     
  6. DRINFEAL

    DRINFEAL Registered User

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    gmorse, thank you for providing the requested information.

     
  7. DRINFEAL

    DRINFEAL Registered User

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    Baillie's or Loome's book mention?
     
  8. novicetimekeeper

    novicetimekeeper Registered User
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    I found the same in my books, Baillies & Loomes, just London and Skipton.

    I found a John Manby, Merchant and Miller in Woodbridge in 1823, but I haven't found any likely candidates in Hadleigh.
     
  9. DRINFEAL

    DRINFEAL Registered User

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    novicetimekeeper, my warmest thanks
     
  10. DRINFEAL

    DRINFEAL Registered User

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    #10 DRINFEAL, Sep 4, 2017
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 6, 2017
    Algunas imágenes claras de los sellos dentro del caso.
    1800 ?, Londres?

     
  11. gmorse

    gmorse Registered User
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    Hi DRINFEAL,

    Not very clear I'm afraid, but clear enough to see that it's not London but Chester. I know the leopard's head is the London mark, but it was also part of the Chester marks, which can be confusing. The date letter is very rubbed, but I think it's an 'O', for 1810. The Chester lists are notoriously incomplete and disorganised, but the case maker may be Edward Maddock II at Edmund Street, Liverpool. Chester would have been the nearest assay office.

    Regards,

    Graham
     
  12. DRINFEAL

    DRINFEAL Registered User

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    Firstly, Graham, my warmest thanks.
    But the doubt arises me:
    Edward Maddock 1785 - 1818.
    Edward Maddock II 1815 - 1829.
    And the date letter could be a ''C'', for 1799?
     
  13. gmorse

    gmorse Registered User
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    Hi DRINFEAL,

    I don't think so, because the letters for 1798 and 1799 were in a completely different font for some reason, it's a sort of script rather than the Roman of the rest of this sequence.

    The sponsor's mark used by Edward Maddock I was in a rectangular cartouche, whereas Edward II used an incuse mark, which yours is. No two makers working at the same time could have identical marks registered in the same assay office.

    Regards,

    Graham
     
  14. DRINFEAL

    DRINFEAL Registered User

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    :confused:
    ''O'' = 1810
    Edward Maddock II 1815 - 1829.
    :confused:
     
  15. John Matthews

    John Matthews Registered User

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    Graham has dated the movement as ~1800 and I think this is the starting point. When hallmarks are worn it is always difficult to be absolutely definite, especially working from photographs. To be honest I think that it is possible that the leopard's head does not have a crown and that would mean that the case hallmarks would be for Chester 1832. EM incuse is definitely the mark of Edward Maddock II of Edmund Street Liverpool, whose dates in Priestley are 1815 to 1837? with an example of the mark recorded on a watch case of 1837. So from the photographs posted, my thoughts are that this is a movement from early in the C19th which now resides in a later case - but that's just my opinion.

    John
     
  16. DRINFEAL

    DRINFEAL Registered User

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    Thaks, John.
    Ok. [FONT=&quot]The Leopard's Head mark appears to uncrowned, this would make it post 1822.
    [/FONT]
    [FONT=&quot]The date of assay is likely 1832.[/FONT]
     
  17. Bila

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    #17 Bila, Sep 5, 2017
    Last edited: Sep 5, 2017
    A couple of Manby's mentioned in Loomes "Watch and Clock Makers of the World", not at Hadleigh thou, need to see clear pictures of the hallmarks inside the case to ascertain what time period, looks from around the 1830's, someone with more experience will point you in the right direction soon I would say.

    Oops, page had not loaded properly, bad connection and a bit slow on the typing, please disregard:chuckling:.
     
  18. gmorse

    gmorse Registered User
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    Hi DRINFEAL,

    John is quite right about the leopard's crown being deleted after 1822/3, which would suggest a date of 1837 and hence a possible re-case, but another possibility is that there were errors in the recording or transcription of the ledgers in the Chester assay office which could account for the discrepancy in the dates.

    Regards,

    Graham
     
  19. DRINFEAL

    DRINFEAL Registered User

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    #19 DRINFEAL, Sep 12, 2017
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 12, 2017
    ¿Es este disco generalmente en el ca
    Is this disc usually in the case?
     
  20. novicetimekeeper

    novicetimekeeper Registered User
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    In my experience no, it is usually added if the outer of a pair case goes missing. Cheaper than making a new outer.
     
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