Urgos UW32/1A Issues

diver7325

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I have been working on a Urgos UW32/1A for a customer...I cleaned it and put it back together...it ran fine for about on month on the test bench test and then all of the sudden quit running. I found a bushing that need to be replaced, so I replaced it and only put the time train together to see if it would run again.

I have been running it on the test bench and it was working fine for almost a month...this morning I can into the shop and it had stopped running again and I can not get it to stay running. It is in beat and when I remove the verge, the train will spin freely when given a little pull so I don't think anything is binding. After I replaced the worn bushing, there appears to be very little movement in the train.

I am at a loss as to what the issue is...I know there are post about them "wearing out" but it seems to be in good shape and runs great when it will stay running. Any ideas?? Any help would be greatly appreciated!!!
 

NEW65

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Hi. Check for any foreign bodies in the gears.. I had a similar issue and found a whisker just inside the teeth of the escape wheel. That’s all it takes to stop it.
Other possible reason - did you rebush the verge pivots? If you did re bush, ensure the verge pivots are not too tight)
Other issue: is the chime lift running into the chime warning pin? Is the minute hand locked when this happens?
good luck.
 

Dick Feldman

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Denis,

From my impression, the Urgos clock movement may need some more bushings. It is very unlikely the clock only wore at one pivot hole. Your cleaning, oiling and adjusting the movement without success is reinforcement that those practices are preventative and not curative.
“Making the movement go” does not necessarily mean the clock movement will be dependable in the long term.
You will find wear to be your biggest enemy with clock repair. That movement has to be more than 20 years old and likely has reached or is near the end of its useful lifespan as it is.
I would suggest your reassess all pivot holes in the plates on all three trains.

Best,

Dick
 

shutterbug

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I'm in complete agreement with Dick on this. You will learn (either here or 'the hard way') that shortcuts on the bench cost you money in the long run. When you get a movement in, do the repairs with the intent of never seeing the clock again. If you do minimal work and charge minimal prices for it, you end up having to do it again, for free, and lose money and time. You also get frustrated with the customer because he keeps coming back again and again .... but he's completely in his rights to do so. Take the hit on this one. Take it apart, do it right, put it back together and get it out of your hair. Chalk it up to experience, and don't repeat the mistake ;)
 
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wow

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My guess is a slightly bent pivot or a sloppy bushing in the time train. Easy to miss. Check those under magnification.
 

R. Croswell

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I have been working on a Urgos UW32/1A for a customer...I cleaned it and put it back together...it ran fine for about on month on the test bench test and then all of the sudden quit running. I found a bushing that need to be replaced, so I replaced it and only put the time train together to see if it would run again.

I have been running it on the test bench and it was working fine for almost a month...this morning I can into the shop and it had stopped running again and I can not get it to stay running. It is in beat and when I remove the verge, the train will spin freely when given a little pull so I don't think anything is binding. After I replaced the worn bushing, there appears to be very little movement in the train.

I am at a loss as to what the issue is...I know there are post about them "wearing out" but it seems to be in good shape and runs great when it will stay running. Any ideas?? Any help would be greatly appreciated!!!
In sorting this problem we need to ask what changed after a one month run to cause it to stop. You say it ran for a month but how well did it run? How much overswing did it have? If the over swing was minimal it may have gradually fallen to zero as the initial oiling (over oiling?) dissipated causing it to stop. If that is the case then I agree with others - it is unlikely that this clock only needed one pivot hole bushed. But we still need to round up the regular suspects for questioning.

* Were you running this movement with the hands in place? Sometimes if a movement is test run without the hands the hour pipe can slip forward causing the motion works gear to get stuck between the pinion and the retaining washer. The clock runs fine for days and suddenly stops.

* You found a bushing that needed to be replaced. Do you mean that you found a worn pivot hole that needed a bushing, or was this an actual bushing that had been previously installed or one that you previously installed? Any previous bushing work is always suspect.

* With no power applied, do all arbors have at least a small amount of end shake?

* That the going train spins up when power is applied without the verge proves very little. Try the same test but apply just enough hand pressure to the main wheel to start the wheels turning and stop and note where each wheel stops (use a felt marker). Repeat several times with the movement upright, face down, and back down. It is hard to quantitatively describe whether too much force is required to start thing moving but if everything is good the force should be very small. If any wheel repeatedly stops at the same place look there for a problem.

* Did you polish or burnish the pivots?

* Dis you remove any ruts in the verge faces and polish them?

I'm thinking you will need to disassemble this movement and reinspect everything with an eye out for excessive wear through out.

RC
 
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Willie X

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Your clock is a first series and would be between about 40 and 60 years old. A clock this old will surely need the treatment/s others have just mentioned, or replacement. Willie X
 
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diver7325

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RC:

To answer some of your questions...I really don't know changed in the month...I put it on my test bench and started running it (without hands)...it ran down at least 3 times and I would pull the chain and restart it.

With about 8 inches left until it hit the ground, I came in one day and it had stopped over night...I restarted it and it would run about 2-3 minutes (beat seemed to really good) and then it would just stop without reason.

When I said it need a new bushing, it was the original pivot that needed a bushing. I did find a few more that had more wobble (elongated) than I liked and I put bushing in those as well. It has been running fine for over 24 now so I will keep a close eye on it...

While I had it apart (again), I repolished all the arbors and made sure they were straight...there is very little oil used on them (just a drop on each pivot point.

I will keep everyone posted on the progress...it might be about a month since that is how long it took it to stop last time.

Thank you for all the help and hopefully I get it figured out soon...you know how customers are, they want it done a week after dropping it off!!
 

R. Croswell

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....it might be about a month since that is how long it took it to stop last time.

Thank you for all the help and hopefully I get it figured out soon...you know how customers are, they want it done a week after dropping it off!!
Well, just taking it apart and looking and putting it back together and watching it run for another month and expecting a different outcome is probably a waste of time. If you didn't do something to correct the problem it is still there. It may run for a month and stop a week after you deliver it to the customer but sooner or latter the problem will raise its head again. We all have a waiting line before we get to work on a clock, but 3 months of testing and it still won't keep running, I can understand the customer's concerns. What was the original complaint that caused the customer to bring the clock for service? I think you need to keep looking for the problem rather than waiting for it to happen once a month or so.

Bushing issues would be the first place I would look.
1) With the movement together, lay it on its back and use a "probe" to lift each wheel upward as far as it will go toward the upper plate. Then quickly release the wheel it must instantly drop down with no hesitation. Turn the movement face down and do the same thing. In each case there must be some end to end play (end shake) and the wheel must drop without hesitation. It is a common problem when bushings are hand broached to find that the pivot fits the bushing nicely, but the angle of the broached hole is not a perfect 90 degrees. Both pivots can fit nicely but with the plates together it can be tight.

2) Under optics, look at each pivot in the bushing (with the clock together). Move the arbor side to side in each direction (north, south, east, west). You should be able to see a small but noticeable clearance between the pivot and the hole in each direction.

3) What method did you use to center the bushings that were installed? Just because a wheel and pinion turns without locking up solid does not mean that the depth of the mesh is correct. Make sure that each wheel and pinion contact at the proper point.

4) Check evert wheel for even slightly bent teeth, especially the escape wheel.

5) An important observation when the clock stopped and you could not keep it running was the escape wheel advancing a tooth on each swing , or was it just rocking back and forth with the verge? If the verge is too close to the EW or the pallet spacing is incorrect the escapement may be occasionally hanging up.

Keep looking and you will find the problem, but you must find it or it ain't fixed and it will be back again.

RC
 
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diver7325

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The original complaint was that the clock would not run...when I went to the house to look at it, the suspension spring was broken and the movement was all gummed up and dirty.

Took it back to the shop and cleaned it and replaced the suspension spring. I will take it apart again and double check all the areas you pointed out...eventually I will find the issue.

Thanks again.
 

Willie X

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I would put a good beat amplifier on it. Turn it up, so you can hear it as you go about your other work. Chances are, you will hear some "soft ticks" occasionally. This can lead you to the problem. Tip, the rate of repetition is the key. Once every 12 hours would be a problem at the center wheel. Once every 50 seconds would be at the escape wheel, etc. I would suspect your problem will be low in the train, or you may have multiple problems that eventually line up to cause your stoppage. Multiple problems is a common issue. Willie X
 
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diver7325

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**UPDATE**

I restarted the movement on March 21, 2021 and it has been running fine since then. Yesterday, I went into the shop and the weight had ran completely down so I restarted it...came in today and it had stopped and won't stay running again...every time, it will run just shy of a month and then stop...I am starting to get discouraged because I have not had a movement I have not been able to fix but this one is kicking my butt!! I just find it strange that it runs fine for over three weeks and then just stops...I need to look closer at it, but I am starting to think I would be better off getting a new one for them.
 

tracerjack

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I had a very finicky weight movement that would run for months, then not run. I’d have to restart several times. Then it would run again for months and repeat the behavior, especially if I didn’t wind it and the weights ran down. After cleaning,etc, I decided to adjust the verge distance to see if it would run better. It had always had a weak amplitude from the day I bought it new. Amplitude improved and it has run well ever since. Might be a possibility with yours, since the behavior sounds so familiar to mine.
 

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