Urgos 32/1a

Nicko

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How does one tighten the friction coupling from the pendulum to the anchor arbor. This one is a bit loose, keeps going out of beat.

DSCF0136.JPG
 

Dick Feldman

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Are you sure that is the cause of the clock going out of beat?
Could it be the pivot holes for the verge and escape wheel are loose?
If that is the case, the EW and verge will wander continually, preventing the clock from staying in beat.
As a test, you may want to fuse the auto beat mechanism temporarily with masking tape, or some other means. Then set the beat manually and see if that makes a difference.
You may have a beat problem with that auto beat mechanism or with loose pivot holes or both.
If you find those pivot holes to be loose, you can bet there is wear throughout the clock movement.
Best of luck,
Dick
 

Willie X

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I'm pretty sure that one is going to have a manually adjustable clutch. Just take the pallet arbor assembly out and lightly press the rear brass collar a tiny bit forward, while supporting the shaft. That should tighten the clutch.

That's an old movement you have there and probably needs a lot more work as DF just suggested.

Willie X
 

Jerry Kieffer

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Nicko

Without knowing if the Hub is stationary or a slip fit for adjustment, I personally would Knurl the arbor if stationary or the inside of the hub if adjustable. I can explain the procedure for either or both if required.

Jerry Kieffer
 

Nicko

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Thanks for the replies. I am not familiar with "manually ajustable clutch" ,"slip fit", or "auto beat mechanism". I'll take it apart over the weekend and post findings back here.
 

Nicko

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The anchor looks like a slip fit auto adjusting type. Pulling the pendulum high and letting it go should result in an even beat. The friction clutch attached to the pendulum hanger and anchor arbour has very little friction at the range of auto beat. It's fine the rest of the way around. I think the friction is not enough to reliable keep beat. I need to tighten it up. The pivots on the anchor and escape wheel arbour look ok for 3 of 4, one need a bushing.
The escapement goes into a recoil mode at times. I don't think that should happen but I believe it can. There is some wear on the faces of the pallets.

DSCF0160.JPG

The clock also has a low pendulum swing, There are worn pivots futher down the train. I think the movement needs a service as one of the relatives said that the clock would only run with the heavier weight on the middle chain , the time train.

Jerry, I would like to see your method of knurling the inside and outside of the arbour.
 

Willie X

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That's a manuel adjust set-up.

Just tap the brass collar lightly, using a hollow punch. Stop when you get good friction/resistance. It may take a lot of force but usually not.

If it won't tighten, remove it and use a tiny chisel to make a single 'scar' on the shaft.
Make the scar in line with the shaft and no longet that the collar. Just a slight upset in the metal is all you need.

Willie X
 
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Willie X

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Example of a 'scar'. It acts like a single spline. Most collars loosen because they turn. The scar will both tighten the fit and stop the rotation. This is a 1/4 inch chisel, sharpened a little steaper that the usual 45°. One light tap with a 4 ounce hammer and your done.

It's not that noticable in the photo but the chisel should be angled, about 5 or 10 degrees, to make the scar a little deeper (more upset) in the direction the collar will be moving toward. Willie X

IMG_20210613_143112.jpg
 
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Jerry Kieffer

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View attachment 658747


Jerry, I would like to see your method of knurling the inside and outside of the arbour.

Nicko
Without having your anchor assembly in hand, I can not tell you if its a candidate for knurling or not. I would suggest Willie`s, "tap it on tighter " first.

Personally, I prefer knurling to recreate a friction fit where required for several reasons. First, if you have versatile equipment its a quick and simple procedure where the size and location of the knurl can be predetermined. In addition, it covers the complete circumference of the work piece avoiding runout issues etc. One can also create what ever friction tension is required by the depth of the knurl to avoid cracking of assembles if to tight..

(1) The OD of a work piece can be knurled as illustrated in the first photo. In this case support would be required, thus the end of the arbor is riding in a brass bushing and supported by the tailstock.

(2) A small diameter hole such as some horological wheels and other parts can also be knurled in the ID.
In doing this I use a dental bur and fit two micro ball bearings on the arbor per second photo.

(3) The assembly in this case is mounted in a #78 WW collet in a tool post collet holder per third photo. Again in this case the bur is positioned inside the ID of the wheel and rotates as it makes contact with the ID.

Jerry Kieffer



fullsizeoutput_861.jpeg DSCN1401.JPG fullsizeoutput_848.jpeg
 

TEACLOCKS

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Nicko
Without having your anchor assembly in hand, I can not tell you if its a candidate for knurling or not. I would suggest Willie`s, "tap it on tighter " first.

Personally, I prefer knurling to recreate a friction fit where required for several reasons. First, if you have versatile equipment its a quick and simple procedure where the size and location of the knurl can be predetermined. In addition, it covers the complete circumference of the work piece avoiding runout issues etc. One can also create what ever friction tension is required by the depth of the knurl to avoid cracking of assembles if to tight..

(1) The OD of a work piece can be knurled as illustrated in the first photo. In this case support would be required, thus the end of the arbor is riding in a brass bushing and supported by the tailstock.

(2) A small diameter hole such as some horological wheels and other parts can also be knurled in the ID.
In doing this I use a dental bur and fit two micro ball bearings on the arbor per second photo.

(3) The assembly in this case is mounted in a #78 WW collet in a tool post collet holder per third photo. Again in this case the bur is positioned inside the ID of the wheel and rotates as it makes contact with the ID.

Jerry Kieffer



View attachment 658901 View attachment 658902 View attachment 658903

Where did you get that OD knurler :???::???::???:
Lloyd
 

Jerry Kieffer

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Where did you get that OD knurler :???::???::???:
Lloyd
Lloyd
That particular one came from a wholesale tool dealer years ago.

However various diameters and face widths can be ordered from any of the larger machine tool supply houses.

If you need a narrow knurl, simply set a standard width bump knurl (as in the photo) at a 45 degree angle. By moving back and forth, you can control the width of your knurl from a line to as wide as you wish.

Jerry Kieffer
 

Dick Feldman

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The clock also has a low pendulum swing, There are worn pivots futher down the train. I think the movement needs a service as one of the relatives said that the clock would only run with the heavier weight on the middle chain , the time train.
Those symptoms are classic of a worn movement. If you see wear in the lower parts of the movement, you can bet there is wear in the upper parts of the movement that you do not recognize. There is not a physical reason a clock movement will wear only in certain places.
My guess is that once the pivot hole problems are cured, the varying beat problem will go away.
The escapement always seems to catch the blame when it is actually a victim of something else.
Best,
Dick
 

Nicko

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Those symptoms are classic of a worn movement. If you see wear in the lower parts of the movement, you can bet there is wear in the upper parts of the movement that you do not recognize. There is not a physical reason a clock movement will wear only in certain places.
My guess is that once the pivot hole problems are cured, the varying beat problem will go away.
The escapement always seems to catch the blame when it is actually a victim of something else.
Best,
Dick
I think you are right, Dick. I did get a quote for a new movement, but that was a bit too expensive, once the US$ was converted to AU$.
I'll fix it by replacing bushings as required.
 

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