Unusual wood works case.. anybody recognize?

Discussion in 'Wood Movement Clocks' started by fume happy, Jul 19, 2009.

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  1. fume happy

    fume happy Registered User

    Mar 31, 2005
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    Hello all,
    Found this at a local mart. Appears to have had an opening in the upper portion of the case backboard which was closed, probably intended for wooden works. Has the nail holes where the sheet of zinc or tin would have gone over it on the remaining lower part. Rails have been removed from the case. It appears it had a 'business card' type label, on a blue background. The door has three sections, with the upper door glass having a reverse painting on it. I have included a picture. It is exceedingly hard to see in person, so I played with it in Gimp for a little bit and got it so you can kinda see the stencil. I'm not sure if the doorknob is original, but it looks like a neat enough installation where it could have been. Cornice on top looks original. It appears it's a very late wooden works, and while the case may have originally been intended for wooden works, I can't at this point rule out that it got one of the newfangled brass movements before it left the factory. I am hoping the case style is unique enough where someone might recognize it.
    Thanks!
    ~Fumey
     

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  2. Sooth

    Sooth Registered User
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    Feb 19, 2005
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    Fume, I'd appreciate some photos taken with better lighting. But my first GUESS (and I do mean guess) is Jerome. I don't know why I say this, but it's just my first impression. It's probably not by him. It does look rather early, but he (and Atkins) was a maker that used the painted glass surround for the dial.

    Again, I'd like to see better photos.
     
  3. Sooth

    Sooth Registered User
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    I Photoshopped the main photo some more, and I'll stick with my original thoughts. Especially since you say blue background with card label (found on very early Jerome clocks fairly often). Also, I'd think it was originally a WW clock, and not fitted with a brass movement. You say it has the tin panel on the reverse (or it used to). I'd say you found quite a unique clock, well worth restoring. And I'd also think that the knob is original. I have seen these on a few early clocks.
     
  4. Jerome collector

    Jerome collector Registered User
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    Fume Happy and Sooth,
    I think both of you are on the right track. In 1997 I ran across a clock at the Smithsonian, with case similar to the one in question, a wood works movement, and a C&N Jerome card label on blue paper. Unfortunately, the Smithsonian example did not have a door, but the reverse painted upper glass on your clock is identical to one in my collection on a Smith & Bros 8-day OG clock from from 1841-42. The Smith & Bros clock has a label overpasted on a Chauncey Jerome label and is almost certainly a product of Jerome that was purchased by Smith & Bros for resale. I think the number of coincidences are enough to strongly suggest that Fume Happy's clock is a Jerome.

    I actually have a Terry Jr wood works clock with the same case style. Many years ago I wrote to Ward Francillon about the clock to see whether he could shed any light on its history. It had a non-standard Terry movement. Ward said he thought the clock was referred to in a letter written by Terry Jr from around 1842 (my memory is fuzzy here, and I haven't been able to put my hands on the letter from Ward). Ward thought the case was a Terry Jr design. If Fume Happy's clock is in fact a Jerome clock, then it seems doubtful that it's a Terry design. Based on the label it probably dates from 1838 and would have been one of the last wood works clocks made by Jerome.

    When I get my act together, I will post images of the clocks I've referred to.
    Mike
     
  5. fume happy

    fume happy Registered User

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    That would be pretty funny if it turned out to be a Jerome... wasn't even trying for one once :D

    When my friend pointed out the business card label tack holes I began to wonder if it was a Jerome or an EC Brewster. I know I've never seen the case style before myself so it seemed like a worthwhile purchase.
    Mr. Jerome Collector I look forward to the pictures when you get a chance.
    Going off your Eli Terry Jr lead, I found this one on antique clocks price guide. Same Case style, different door though, and label is not a business card:

    http://www.antiqueclockspriceguide.com/clockdetail.php?id=28670


    I am curious to see what the one in the Smithsonian had for a movement.

    Sooth, are you going to be making it to the Syracuse regional this year?

    Thanks!
    ~Fumey
     
  6. Sooth

    Sooth Registered User
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    Fume, no car, and no passport, so that's a no, sadly.

    I Photoshopped the hell out of your first photo to make it clearer. Here it is.

    FumesClock.gif
     
  7. Steven Thornberry

    Steven Thornberry User Administrator
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    Was that splat of wood in the center of the door alays like that, do you suppose, or was something there, such as a mirror? Just wondering.
     
  8. Sooth

    Sooth Registered User
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    I'd think it was wood. There are other similar clocks out there, and some have wood like this one.
     
  9. fume happy

    fume happy Registered User

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    Sooth, thanks for the photo shop work, looks excellent!
    I strongly believe the mahogany veneered panel is original.. seems to be held in by the original wood strips on back. Lower glass is actually a mirror. Not sure if its original or not though. The back of the wood panel has a repair date from 1859 on the back of it, which bolsters the originality theory.

    Thanks!
    ~Fumey
     
  10. Jerome collector

    Jerome collector Registered User
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    See below for images of clocks I mentioned in my earlier post.

    See http://home.earthlink.net/~mmbailey39/Smithsonian-lr.jpg for the Smithsonian clock with C&N Jerome card label on blue paper background, type 5.112 (I think) brass bushed movement.

    My Terry Jr & Co clock with similar case is at http://home.earthlink.net/~mmbailey39/IMG_1527-lr.jpg along with the label http://home.earthlink.net/~mmbailey39/IMG_1529-lowres.jpg.

    See http://home.earthlink.net/~mmbailey39/IMG_1531-lr.jpg for the Smith & Bros OG with their label pasted over a Chauncey Jerome label. And see http://home.earthlink.net/~mmbailey39/IMG_1532-lowres.jpg for the upper glass, which appears to be identical to Fume Happy's.
     
  11. fume happy

    fume happy Registered User

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    Well, Since we know that round dials in these cases always have an upper reverse painted glass, I'm going to safely assume at this point that My clock case is the same as the one in the Smithsonian. It has the gong, correct positioning of the business card label, and style. Mr Jerome Collector, Sooth, et all, Thank you very much! Never thought I'd find out this fast :D
    ~Fumey
     
  12. Sooth

    Sooth Registered User
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    I'd also agree that it is the same as the one at the Smithsonian. However, you have a bit of a bonus to your clock, because yours still has the door. Maybe you'd want to contact the Smithsonian with photos of your case...
     
  13. Jerome collector

    Jerome collector Registered User
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    It's conceivable that the Smithsonian clock has a door. They may have taken it off for display purposes. If so, it was definitely helpful in showing the blue paper backing and small card label. Not so helpful if you're interested in door features.
     
  14. Missy

    Missy Registered User
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    #14 Missy, Jul 27, 2009
    Last edited: Jul 27, 2009
    This probably isn't relevant now, but I thought I would post it anyway. I had first thought the dial glass design was the same as on my C & N Jerome round side shelf clock. I couldn't see the design well enough in fume's pictures, but looking at the one Jerome Collector posted, I think they are similar but different.

    Quite a find Fume. :thumb:

    Missy
     

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  15. Jim DuBois

    Jim DuBois Registered User
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    Missy, you have one of my favorites. Here is one I owned years ago, it has the 1839 patent movement in it, version 2, with solid wheels and a drilled escape wheel. I notice the lable is also a bit different than yours.

    Sorry about the poor quality photos but it is all I have...
     

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  16. fume happy

    fume happy Registered User

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    Jim, you are lucky to have had one with solid wheels! They are royal pain to find. I've only seen one in the past few years.
    ~Fumey
     
  17. Missy

    Missy Registered User
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    Jim, it's one of my favorites also. It's a small, compact and solid clock with plain lines, but the rounded sides and painted dial surround give it a pleasing appearance to me. The gong is very loud too. I don't know the date of mine as I don't know much about movements, but it has cut out wheels.

    Was the bottom glass original on yours? Mine has a mirror, but is probably an early replacement since it is not held in by putty but by strips of wood.

    Missy
     
  18. Jim DuBois

    Jim DuBois Registered User
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    #18 Jim DuBois, Jul 28, 2009
    Last edited: Jul 28, 2009
    The solid wheel movement was shown in drawings in Noble Jerome's famous 1839 patent for the 30 hr brass movement of his new and for the time unusual movement. It was introduced with all wheels beng unspoked / solid. Shortly after the introduction the first modification was the drilled escape wheel like mine had. With in months the spoked wheels were introduced. This is covered in some detail in Ken Roberts book "The Contribution of Joseph Ives Conneticut Clock Technology 1810-1862" statring on page 200 of the revised 2nd edition.

    And Missy, as much as I would like to claim the glass was original it was a tremendous repaint by I believe Lee Davis. This would have been dated to about 1975 -78 and it was a copy of one either he or I saw in a similar clock. As I look at the glass today I suspect that stylistically it might be a bit later design than the clock, it was still an exceptional glass. There are perhaps 25 or 30 clocks I really regret selling (of more than a thousand) over a llifetime, this is one of them....

    here is a slightly better photo of the glass, only slightly better....
     

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  19. fume happy

    fume happy Registered User

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    Missy, just because your mirror is held in by wood strips doesn't mean it's not original. I have seen wood strips on several clocks from the early 1840s, and they did appear original. Are they beveled, or just rectangular?
    Incidentally, your clock with that label probably dates 1839-1840.
    ~Fumey
     
  20. Missy

    Missy Registered User
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    fume, I've been trying to get a decent picture of the inside of the door. The strips of wood are only about 2 3/8 to 2 1/2". There are 2 at the bottom and one on each side and top. They are not even uniform in shape. There are 3 glazier points left. The top glass is held in by the original putty.

    Since I have been looking at it more, I'm not even sure it's a mirror. It could be a plain piece of glass coated on the back with what may be asphalum. It seems to sparkle on the outside that made me think it was an old mirror. What ever was done, it looks like a long time ago. I don't really mind as it gives it a smokey, blue-black look that seems to go with the clock.

    Thanks for the date. That's what I was thinking going by what Jim said about the movement.

    Sorry, I didn't mean to hi-jack your thread about your incredible find.

    Missy
     

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  21. fume happy

    fume happy Registered User

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    No need to apologize about thread hijacking... Besides, since it's a conversation about early Jerome clocks, it's not even really a hijacking :)

    ~Fumey
     
  22. rmarkowitz1_cee4a1

    rmarkowitz1_cee4a1 Registered User
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    Re:unusual wood works case. See the Cog Counter's Journal, #11, 8/76, page 9, entry 15 and page 53, photo in lower right hand corner. Describes and illustrates C. & N Jerome clock, that case, with 8 day wood works converted to 30 hour (a factory conversion) with calling card label tacking to back of case (poor quality photo, unable to read). Shows portion of back of door. Going from top to bottom, reverse painted dial surround, wood panel, what looks like mirror. Mentions clock had round zinc dial. Pretty sure that was what your clock once was. RM
     
  23. fume happy

    fume happy Registered User

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    Thank you sir, i will have to look that up next time I'm at the Bristol Museum!
    ~Fumey
     

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