unusual ladies w/w winds at 12

[Jerry Treiman]

I have this Waltham 7-1/2 ligne round movement (circa 1916) with original dial. The dial is 24 mm long and 17 mm wide at the movement. These small movements are typically cased in very stylish gold or platinum wristwatch cases.



What has me stumped is that this is set up to wind at 12 and I cannot imagine what style case it may have originally had. Does anyone have any suggestions or examples?

 

[Jerry Treiman]

I have this Waltham 7-1/2 ligne round movement (circa 1916) with original dial. The dial is 24 mm long and 17 mm wide at the movement. These small movements are typically cased in very stylish gold or platinum wristwatch cases.



What has me stumped is that this is set up to wind at 12 and I cannot imagine what style case it may have originally had. Does anyone have any suggestions or examples?

 

[Jeff Hess]

Jerry,

I have seen these top winders in platinum and diamond (and sometimes enamled) chatelaine watches. (Tht hang from a chain)

Would this be possble?

JEff

 

[doug sinclair]

Jerry,

It would have been easy for the dial pegs to be put on so the watch wound at the 3, owing to the fact that there is no seconds hand. I wonder if the movement might have been in (I believe they are called "hermetic "watches?). There was an article in the BULLETIN some years ago about these purse watches that can be opened to wind or to view. The BULLETIN index search is down right now, so I hope "hermetic" is the right term. I suppose there is a chance the watch was designed to fit into a suite of jewellery worn other than as a wrist watch would be worn. Something like a brooch which got melted during the Depression in the 1930s?

 

[Jerry Treiman]

Jeff - that is very possible, in fact quite likely, I would say for this movement. Do you know where I might see pictures of some examples?

Doug - on this particular movement it would be difficult to monkey with the dial. This movement normally takes a round dial that fits in the recessed pillar plate. This one has had the rim milled away at 12 & 6 to accomodate the extensions of the dial, so it could not be rotated. A hermetic watch or brooch are certainly other possibilities I had not considered -- I was stuck in a wristwatch mindset because of the movement.

 

[Jerry Treiman]

First, here is the lost movement image from the first post in this thread. In the intervening years I have seen a couple of pendant watches that could have used this movement, winding at 12.


View attachment 201113


Next, here is another example that I just got, cased as a wristwatch and winding at 12. I am pretty sure that this platinum watch dates from 1915. Note the gently exploding numbers at this early date. This is also interesting in the use of Ohlson's patent setting, which I previously have discussed in this thread --> https://mb.nawcc.org/showthread.php?38429-Ohlson-patent-for-Waltham

View attachment 201114


Both movements are marked "Patrician", a trademark claimed by H.W. Matalene, who is also the maker of my recent case. The gray book has a footnote that these movements include "Matalene Patent Setting". Although commonly cased by Matalene, I think this should have noted the Ohlson patent instead. Although Matalene did have several patents related to setting, I have not seen this model incorporating his patents. Since the earliest production of these high-grade movements were marked with the Patrician name I believe it demonstrates that Matalene was chosen to case the first examples of these movements.