Unknown (to me) British hallmarks--need help

Discussion in 'European & Other Pocket Watches' started by jboger, Aug 1, 2020.

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  1. jboger

    jboger Registered User

    Jan 7, 2019
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    I admit this is off topic. For my now grown-up daughter I bought an English salt cellar, more of a cauldron. I've failed--I'm a failure--to identify the maker's mark and would like some help. The marks are for London for the year 1790 (lower case p). If you have the time and inclination, please have a look at the mark below.

    IMG_1219.jpg
     
  2. Allan C. Purcell

    Allan C. Purcell Registered User
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    Jdoger, I think the marks on your salt cellar were made in Edinburgh, They did sometimes use the Lion Passant when making Sterling silver, so it is not on all their wares. The odd-looking thing near the letter "d" could well be the head of the Scottish thistle. I could of course be wrong as that letter "d" would be for 1809, and there is no castle on there. The JS could be the silver smith.??
     
  3. jboger

    jboger Registered User

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    Yes, the script JS should be the silversmith.
     
  4. John Matthews

    John Matthews Registered User
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    #4 John Matthews, Aug 1, 2020
    Last edited: Aug 1, 2020
    I believe the hallmark is 'P' for London 1750. The cartouche surrounding the Lion Passant was only used between 1739/40 and1755/56. The maker is Joseph Sanders who registered this mark (JS in a script font) on 7 December 1730. Heal records him as a plate worker, Carey Lane 1730 and London 1732-1742, with a note that he resigned from 'Livery' 18 May 1748. ...

    The Worshipful Company of Goldsmiths is one of the Great Twelve Livery Companies of the City of London. The company's headquarters are at Goldsmiths' Hall in the City of London. The Company, which originates from the twelfth century, received a Royal Charter in 1327 and ranks fifth in the order of precedence of City Livery Companies.

    I cannot bring to mind whether the date of the resignation from 'Livery' has significance in terms of the history of the Company of Goldsmiths. Irrespective, it would appear if my identification is correct, the item was made late in the career of Sanders. He was the son of William Sanders, a yeoman in High Wickham. He was apprenticed to Thomas Ewesdin 1/9/1714 and then Joseph Belcher, in Malden Lane London from 4/9/1719 - free in 1721 or 22.

    John
     
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  5. jboger

    jboger Registered User

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    Thank you, John M.

    So, George II, not III. This earlier date--I had thought 1790--may be consistent with the manner in which the initials were engraved on the underside of the cellar, not totally visible in my photo. Those initials form a triangle with a T at the top, an R to the lower left, and an M to the lower right. The T stands for the husband's last name, the R for his first name, and the M for his wife. This gave way by the end of the 18th C, at least in the US, often to just a single initial. I don't want to abuse the Forum and it's members. I will keep the focus on watches and not stray from the straight and narrow.

    John
     

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