Please ID this Clock Unknown Mantle Clock

Discussion in 'General Clock Discussions' started by Mr. Time, Jun 2, 2020.

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  1. Mr. Time

    Mr. Time Registered User

    Feb 13, 2017
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    Hello everyone!

    I have this clock that has been stored away for many years now (over 20 yrs.) and would like to know more about it with specifics as to who the maker is (or was) the movement, etc.

    The movement has “Made In England” stamped on it (as you can see in the picture).

    As for a bit of its history, this clock was belong to my mom and sat above the fireplace mantle for years.

    Years ago I remember the clock actually working and chiming, etc but that was over 30 years ago or so.

    Anyway I eneded up with it and it sat stoed away (in our house) for years until now.

    I did wind it up and moved the small pendulum and attempted to see if it would work but no go (meaning it does chime when the clock hands are moved but the pendulum will stop quickly after swinging from side to side)?

    I would appreciate any and all info that can be give about the clock.

    Have been thinking about having it restored but ?

    Also (other than what I have already stated about Made In England) the clock has no other markings, or information, etc. no where stamped on the movement or the wood housing.

    Thanks everyone in advance that post!

    634C1802-1184-4813-A9C2-7D875D5E8EF5.jpeg 0498E4C8-EFB9-455E-835F-39FB839095ED.jpeg EC4448FB-2ED7-432C-86B0-B560976B232C.jpeg E9129D9D-7CEE-45FD-ACCB-D495F6764051.jpeg 84A5A0B4-08D0-40E4-B036-0A769E33DF28.jpeg
     
  2. Uhralt

    Uhralt Registered User
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    Sep 4, 2008
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    Can't help with identification of the clock but others probably will. When you said you moved the small pendulum, did you actually hang the pendulum that is laying on the bottom of the case to the suspension spring or did you just move the pendulum crutch (the piece that is attached to the movement)? Without the real pendulum the clock may not run, depending on what kind of escapement it has.

    And the obvious question: Did you wind the clock before trying to run it?

    Uhralt
     
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  3. Mr. Time

    Mr. Time Registered User

    Feb 13, 2017
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    I did actually hang that pendulum (that you pointed out laying on the bottom) on the movement when checking it out, etc. trying to get it to work.

    I took the pictures "after the fact" that I tried messing around with it. Once done, I just removed the pendulum and left it laying there.
     
  4. JTD

    JTD Registered User

    Sep 27, 2005
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    I think the clock may very well be out of beat. There is on this site a very simple guide to setting a clock into beat called 'Beat Setting 101' which you can find using the little search icon (magnifying glass) on the tool bar.

    Try that and you may find your clock will run. Nevertheless, as it has been in store for 30 years, it would be good to get it properly serviced before running it permanently.

    JTD
     
  5. Royce

    Royce Registered User
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    I'm assuming that there is more to the pendulum than what is shown in the bottom of the clock. I don't see the pendulum rod that attaches to the suspension spring or am I missing something.
     
  6. JTD

    JTD Registered User

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    Royce, It looks as if you're right.

    Mr.Time, how did you hang the pendulum when you tried to get it running?

    JTD
     
  7. jmclaugh

    jmclaugh Registered User

    Jun 1, 2006
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    I had a good look through Clockmaking in England & Wales in the Twentieth Century, the best reference source of its type, but I couldn't find that movement in it so no help with who made it.
     
  8. Steven Thornberry

    Steven Thornberry User Administrator
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    I'm glad I wasn't the only one. Is the suspension mount original, you think? It certainly seems shiny. But I suppose retrofitting a replacement might be too problematic.
     
  9. jmclaugh

    jmclaugh Registered User

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    Yes I also wondered about the suspension block, which is quite distinctive, but I imagine if it isn't original it was custom made. Even ignoring that there doesn't appear to be a movement that is a likely candidate in the above book.
     
  10. Mr. Time

    Mr. Time Registered User

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    #10 Mr. Time, Jun 3, 2020
    Last edited: Jun 3, 2020
    My apologies for the late response but have been busy lately. Also please forgive me for the misspelled words in my original first post but its hard typing using the small screen on an iPhone!
    After reading it I did try to correct it but I guess the time lapse was too long because I just couldn’t.

    Again thank y’all for taking the time to post and give your thoughts, views, suggestions, etc.!

    As for the pendulum well here is a picture of it. My apologies for not showing a picture of it, specifically, beforehand. It can be hung when you remove the small thread and re-attach it.

    Also I did call a clock shop place an spoke with the individual, told me to send pictures of the clock and the movement, etc. which I did then he texted back saying that it would cost $225 to clean and recondition the clock but as lock as the clock’s “mainspring s’ are serviceable but if they weren’t then it wojld be an extra $40.00.

    What do y’all think?

    E2977C0F-86EF-49CD-BFC9-45CA04BA5498.jpeg
     
  11. JTD

    JTD Registered User

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    Could you please explain how you hung the pendulum. I can't see the pendulum leader, so I don't know how you could hang it. What did you hang it from?

    Maybe I am missing something.

    JTD
     
  12. Uhralt

    Uhralt Registered User
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    It seems you mounted the pendulum directly to the crutch. It won't work that way. As JTD mentioned you will need a leader that is hung from the suspension spring, goes through the opening of the crutch and has a hook at the end. The eye of the pendulum rod will be hung to the hook. No need to remove the regulating screw.

    I'm not sure if the pendulum you have is original to the clock. It looks more like a bob for an American mantel clock.

    Uhralt
     
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  13. JTD

    JTD Registered User

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    I overlooked that you written that, my apologies. So you are definitely missing the leader.

    First of all, as Uhralt and I both said, you need the pendulum leader. Also, you tried to hang the pendulum bob upside down - the regulating nut is at the bottom. The loop goes over the hook of the leader, as Uhralt explained.

    JTD
     
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  14. Mr. Time

    Mr. Time Registered User

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    OK thanks, thou what exactly is a "pendulum leader"? Could you post a picture of what it looks like and how it is attached to a clock movement?

    Also, you say that I hung the pendulum upside down? Could you please post a picture of, more or less, what a pendulum like that should look like hung?
     
  15. JTD

    JTD Registered User

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    #15 JTD, Jun 4, 2020
    Last edited: Jun 4, 2020
    I am not good at posting photos from other sources, but I will see if I can find one. It is a metal shaft that hangs from the suspension spring, as Uhralt explained very well in his post (#12).

    In the photo you are holding the bob in your hand, but it is upside down. Just turn it the other way, so the the threaded post and nut are downwards and the little loop is upwards. It is the little loop which hooks on to the pendulum leader, (the threaded nut is for adjusting the timekeeping).

    JTD

    UPDATE: I have tried but failed to get you a photo of the sort of leader you need. I am hoping that someone more skilled in 'computering' will be able to do so. You may end up having to make one, but I agree you need to know what to make, so I hope someone can provide a photo.
     
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  16. Mr. Time

    Mr. Time Registered User

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    Alright, yes now I follow!

    Yes I definitely am missing that particular part of the movement for this clock since it is missing.

    Keeping in mind the exact length, can any "pendulum leader" be used for this particular mechanical clock movement?....or does it have to be a specific make/type or model?

    Are Pendulum Leaders hard to find?
     
  17. JTD

    JTD Registered User

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    #17 JTD, Jun 4, 2020
    Last edited: Jun 4, 2020
    DSCF1933.JPG DSCF1934.JPG

    OK, I have taken a photo a movement I have which will, I hope, show what a pendulum leader is. This may not be the exact one for your clock but at least you will know what is being talked about (I hope).

    If the bob you have is original to your clock, then the leader you need will be pretty much like the one in the photo, but will need a hook at the end, not a pin, so that you can hang the bob by its loop.

    Hope this helps.,

    JTD
     
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  18. JTD

    JTD Registered User

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    Yes, it has to fit your clock. The trouble is we don't know who made your clock - that is why you may have to make one.

    Some are, some aren't, but you need to get the right one. Some come up on Ebay and Timesavers and other material houses sell them.

    JTD
     
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  19. Mr. Time

    Mr. Time Registered User

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    Thank you very much JTD for all your help on this.

    From your explanation on this and after my assessment on studying the clock movement it is apparent to me that the "pendulum leader" in question definitely needs to be a very particular pendulum leader both in size/length and style/model.

    It definitely has to have a small "T" type/style connector on one end and a "single hook" type/style on the opposite end. And of course there is the question about length due to the fact that is, I think it would need to be kind of short maybe due to the pendulums adjustment varies in length itself?...so that it does not touch/scrape the bottom base of the clock structure?

    It's looking more and more like I might be forced to actually make a custom one for it?

    If I do, is there any particular metal that I need to actually use to make one?...or can i use any type of metal?

    This is going to be a lot tougher than I anticipated!?
     
  20. Mr. Time

    Mr. Time Registered User

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    From what I can make out, with the Pendulum (itself) adjusted to it's lowest setting, it appears as though the "Pendulum Leader's" total length would have to be just over 1" to maybe an 1-1/2" ?

    Again, definitely not an expert, just my assessment on this.

    Would anyone here in "Clock World" happen to have this particular Pendulum Leader that they could part with or close to it? ( T on one end with a hook on the opposite end).
     
  21. JTD

    JTD Registered User

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    I don't know what you are measuring but whatever it is, it's wrong! The leader in the photos I posted, which comes from a mantel clock very similar in size to yours, is 3½" from where it hangs at the top, to its lower end. Yours will need to be about the same I think.

    I'm not sure what you mean by a T at one end. At the top it needs a split hook that fits onto the pins on each side of the suspension spring. (The leader you need will have the same top part as the one I posted). At the bottom end it needs an ordinary hook for the bob.

    Is that clearer?

    JTD
     
  22. jmclaugh

    jmclaugh Registered User

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    Reply with quote ain't working for me but that sort of bob is used on English mantel clocks of this period though is not one I could find in the book I referred to above. As to a pendulum leader they came in a variety of styles on these clocks but length is as had been said important. Hard to say what it should be for sure other than a wheel count which is a task to be avoided unless there is no alternative.

    Without knowing the manufacturer of this movement finding an original replacement leader I'd say is nigh on impossible but a suitable replacement will do just fine to get it running again but without one there little point servicing it.
     
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  23. Uhralt

    Uhralt Registered User
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    I think you make a very simple leader yourself. Find a piece of brass sheet, about 0.7 mm thick and with a width that is a little bit smaller than the opening in the crutch. Hardware stores or hobby stores carry something suitable. The length should be such that it fits inside the case, measured from the end of the suspension spring to the bottom of the case, minus the length of the pendulum rod. With a thin metal saw, saw a slit into the top of the brass sheet, maybe 1 cm long. Bend it over to form a hook for the suspension spring. At the lower end, form another, non slotted hook for the pendulum. If the sheet is too wide for the pendulum eye, file or cut the lower end of the leader to fit.

    If you get lucky you will be able to regulate the speed of the clock satisfactory right away. If the clock runs slow with the bob at the top position, you can shorten the lower end of your home made leader a bit and form a new hook.

    Uhralt
     
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  24. Mr. Time

    Mr. Time Registered User

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    LOL.....Again, my apologies for not being that familiar or knowing the exact phrases, terminology, etc. for clock movements.
    Like I had previously mentioned, I am not an "expert"......heck I'm not even an amateur!...LOL....like everyone else, I'm just learning.

    Always keep in mind, remember no matter how elementary the question may be, one needs to ask in order to learn.

    I just made a guess measurement taking into consideration the length of the Pendulum in conjunction with the space given in correlation with the Pendulum Leader.

    But definitely appreciate all the suggested info that is posted here from y'all!

    I do wish though, that I could find out more about this particular clocks manufacturer and movement, etc.
     
  25. JTD

    JTD Registered User

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    Of course you should ask, we all had to learn and we still are.

    I am wondering if you are thinking that the bob (the round thing you have in your hand) is in fact the pendulum. It isn't. The pendulum is the whole length from the top suspension spring to the bottom of the bob, including the leader. The bob is just the lower part of the pendulum, it is not the pendulum itself.

    Perhaps that makes things clearer?

    JTD
     
  26. Mr. Time

    Mr. Time Registered User

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    Yes I get it now.
     

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