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Unknown maker cylinder escapement help

jamie powell

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Jun 25, 2020
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Hi

I recently purchased a pocket watch and wondered if anybody could help identify the maker.
I have done research and found so far that it has a Swiss style escape but not sure if the rest is Swiss made.
There are no makers marks as such just some scratchings in the rear of the case as shown eventually in the photos. I can see a signature and 1845 and possibly 1875 but it could just be a dodgy 4 and not a 7.
The hands are loose and tucked away, the hour hand is snapped (i snagged it on my necklace :( ) and the second hand is missing. Is there any way of repairing the second hand? Also the float spring is all messed up, would this be a costly fix if this is the only issue? I really want to get it working as a keepsake but i have seen that it is costly to repair these movement.
It came in a lovely protective case which i think is from te 1930s and German, could anybody give me any more information on these?
Have attached pho
Any help much appreciated

Many thanks

Jamie

0.JPG 1.JPG 2.JPG 3.JPG 4.JPG 5.JPG 7.JPG 8.JPG 9.JPG 10.JPG 11.JPG 13.JPG 14.JPG 15.JPG 16.JPG 17.JPG 19.JPG 20.JPG s-l1600 (1).jpg
 

Dr. Jon

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Dec 14, 2001
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HI, Welcome to the European and Other Watch fforum.
You have a mid grade Geneva type cylinder watch. These were made iin very large number from basic moments called ebauches turned out in large number. There were man operators who bought these bauches nad finished them usually for retailers to put their own names on them. Finding the maker of this one is virtually impossible. It dates to about 1860.

This one was intended for the US or English market.
 

JTD

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Sep 27, 2005
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and the second hand is missing. Is there any way of repairing the second hand?
If it's missing, you can't repair it! So I'm guessing you meant 'replace' and the answer is 'yes' a replacement hand could be obtained. The same goes for the minute hand you broke.

Also the float spring is all messed up, would this be a costly fix if this is the only issue?
The hairspring can be restored but the repair would not be cheap. It depends how much the watch means to you whether or not it would be worth the cost. As has already been said, the watch itself is only of middling quality, but I agree the protective case is very nice.

JTD
 

gmorse

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Jan 7, 2011
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Hi Jamie, and welcome to the forum,

Also the float spring is all messed up, would this be a costly fix if this is the only issue? I really want to get it working as a keepsake but i have seen that it is costly to repair these movement.
The balance spring is certainly all over the place, and if it can't be manipulated back into shape, a replacement could be hard to find, and once found it would probably have to be adjusted to produce the correct rate. However, that isn't the only issue, because you have a very basic quality Swiss made cylinder movement that's dirty, hasn't been looked after very well and would need a proper strip down, examination, cleaning and lubrication, all of which puts the cost between one and two hundred pounds, provided that there's nothing else wrong with it, and you have to ask yourself whether it's worth spending more than it cost you, (at least I hope you didn't pay that much for it!), to get it running again. The fine pivots on the balance are often found to be broken, (no shock protection on these!), and that will increase the repair cost some more.

The case is also Swiss, although there are no apparent Swiss markings inside, and the purity of the silver is probably only 0.800, which was the standard when this was made, sometime in the middle of the 19th century. In the absence of any indication of a maker, (which is perfectly normal for these Swiss exports, which were the products of a cottage industry system of manufacture), I'm afraid that any serial numbers are completely meaningless now, and probably always were. The scratched markings in the case are repairers' private codes and are now largely indecipherable.

Hands can be found on eBay, either individually or as part of scrap movements, and may need some adjustment to fit the dial. Although these watches were made in their thousands, there was very little in the way of standardisation as far as parts were concerned.

Sorry to be the bearer of such gloomy news, but it is what it is.

Regards,

Graham
 

jamie powell

Registered User
Jun 25, 2020
16
0
1
38
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HI, Welcome to the European and Other Watch fforum.
You have a mid grade Geneva type cylinder watch. These were made iin very large number from basic moments called ebauches turned out in large number. There were man operators who bought these bauches nad finished them usually for retailers to put their own names on them. Finding the maker of this one is virtually impossible. It dates to about 1860.

This one was intended for the US or English market.
Hi thank you for your help. I kinda thought as much, thanks for confirming.

Many thanks

Jamie
 

jamie powell

Registered User
Jun 25, 2020
16
0
1
38
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The hairspring can be restored but the repair would not be cheap. It depends how much the watch means to you whether or not it would be worth the cost. As has already been said, the watch itself is only of middling quality, but I agree the protective case is very nice.

JTD[/QUOTE]

HI yeah sorry about that my hand writes quicker than i can think. I meant the hour hand is broken and the second hand is missing.
I purchased the lot for £8. I'm sure id get more for the case and chain.
I do like it but i'm not sure if i like it enough to pay hundreds for a repair if it will cost more than the watch would be worth if that's the case.
Thank you for your help

Many thanks

Jamie
 

jamie powell

Registered User
Jun 25, 2020
16
0
1
38
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Hi Jamie, and welcome to the forum,



The balance spring is certainly all over the place, and if it can't be manipulated back into shape, a replacement could be hard to find, and once found it would probably have to be adjusted to produce the correct rate. However, that isn't the only issue, because you have a very basic quality Swiss made cylinder movement that's dirty, hasn't been looked after very well and would need a proper strip down, examination, cleaning and lubrication, all of which puts the cost between one and two hundred pounds, provided that there's nothing else wrong with it, and you have to ask yourself whether it's worth spending more than it cost you, (at least I hope you didn't pay that much for it!), to get it running again. The fine pivots on the balance are often found to be broken, (no shock protection on these!), and that will increase the repair cost some more.

The case is also Swiss, although there are no apparent Swiss markings inside, and the purity of the silver is probably only 0.800, which was the standard when this was made, sometime in the middle of the 19th century. In the absence of any indication of a maker, (which is perfectly normal for these Swiss exports, which were the products of a cottage industry system of manufacture), I'm afraid that any serial numbers are completely meaningless now, and probably always were. The scratched markings in the case are repairers' private codes and are now largely indecipherable.

Hands can be found on eBay, either individually or as part of scrap movements, and may need some adjustment to fit the dial. Although these watches were made in their thousands, there was very little in the way of standardisation as far as parts were concerned.

Sorry to be the bearer of such gloomy news, but it is what it is.

Regards,

Graham
HI thank you for your help.

I thought that may be the case, I do like it but not enough to pay hundreds to repair it if the cost outweighs its worth.
I paid £8 for the watch case and chain, ill probably sell the case then and either scrap in the silver in if its over a tenner worth if not maybe ill find some one to give it to
who might want it for spares. Any ideas on average weight of a case this size? I dont want to strip it down before knowing if its worth it.
It is gloomy news, such a lovely watch sham not to see it work again.

Thanks for your help

Many thanks

Jamie
 

gmorse

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NAWCC Member
Jan 7, 2011
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Hi Jamie,

The protective outer case, sometimes known as a 'miner's case', should be worth a bit more than £8, (look in 'sold' listings on eBay), but I'd leave the watch itself intact, because scrap silver is only fetching about 30p a gram for 0.800 purity at the moment and these cases are fairly light. In any event, scrapping cases is widely regarded here as an objectionable practice. It would be a nice project for someone with the necessary skills and time to repair it.

Regards,

Graham
 

jamie powell

Registered User
Jun 25, 2020
16
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1
38
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Hi
Thanks for that I was looking for military cases and didn’t come across many the same. Lots of miners cases though.
That’s what I will do, if you know of any body with the skills and time could you let them know and if they pay postage I can send it along to them.
I’d much rather see it in good hands than being smelted.
Thank for your advise

Many thanks

Jamie
 

jamie powell

Registered User
Jun 25, 2020
16
0
1
38
Country
Hi Jamie,

The protective outer case, sometimes known as a 'miner's case', should be worth a bit more than £8, (look in 'sold' listings on eBay), but I'd leave the watch itself intact, because scrap silver is only fetching about 30p a gram for 0.800 purity at the moment and these cases are fairly light. In any event, scrapping cases is widely regarded here as an objectionable practice. It would be a nice project for someone with the necessary skills and time to repair it.

Regards,

Graham
Hi
Thanks for that I was looking for military cases and didn’t come across many the same. Lots of miners cases though.
That’s what I will do, if you know of any body with the skills and time could you let them know and if they pay postage I can send it along to them.
I’d much rather see it in good hands than being smelted.
Thank for your advise

Many thanks

Jamie
 
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