Help Unknown Gilbert fix

Discussion in 'Clock Repair' started by Salsagev, Mar 24, 2020.

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  1. Salsagev

    Salsagev Registered User

    Feb 6, 2020
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    My Gilbert clock has been running for 20 mins and keeps stoping. I oiled the clock and still would not run constantly. It seems to be in beat and I put it on a flat surface. And what model is this clock and what’s the info on the Tran Du Ly book? Thanks

    C1F29ECC-6438-4926-A4F4-C27A050D5A03.jpeg 0D36BB09-0211-4881-AFD6-AF1932927625.jpeg 87E1FDE0-59BC-45A7-95FA-0408069F8485.jpeg E4ADF7F1-9A33-4A47-BD22-553B11FA7C63.jpeg 0FC9CC44-9CC1-463D-BD95-48FD88C70DFB.jpeg D366EB73-85C2-4E6C-ACA4-BD75245EBC33.jpeg CD3D34F1-9761-4E99-AB22-46A278BD4B27.jpeg 80364D0A-F46D-4EF1-B876-2155FFD744FA.jpeg 24F0A375-1DB7-4654-8D9A-DDB804EDB580.jpeg 9E1C8889-9205-4FD1-BA95-F4C1257657F9.jpeg 090BAC85-2A60-431C-8221-081AF56E046F.jpeg 0F680A0C-1AFE-47E6-AD5C-6D75F3872055.jpeg 0957A7FD-15CA-4104-9852-EA35E2B3D928.jpeg 70557AA5-8A4F-404E-A3FC-4A616C0E5571.jpeg 2B52705C-B9AD-419D-ADB2-69261007265A.jpeg
     
  2. wow

    wow Registered User
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    It looks like some bushings are worn oblong. That is probably why it is stopping. It probably needs rebuilding.
     
  3. Uhralt

    Uhralt Registered User
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    I also see at least one badly worn bushing. Likely there are more than this.

    Uhralt
     
  4. Salsagev

    Salsagev Registered User

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    How am I supposed to rebuild this?
     
  5. Willie X

    Willie X Registered User

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    I think you would need to tell us about the clocks you have previously repaired and what kind of tools and machinery you have there. Willie X
     
  6. Salsagev

    Salsagev Registered User

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    I am new to the clock hobby and I got a few clocks in my house. I only have oiled clocks with the oil pin and scraped black stuff off the pivots.
     
  7. Willie X

    Willie X Registered User

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    Sal,

    Well, that's a start but your clock will need to be completely disassembled.

    This is not a good beginner project but you are lucky that it has a removable mainspring feature.

    You will first need to decide if you want to pay a professional to do this, or invest a good bit of your time and money to dive headlong into the wonderful world of clock repair. :)

    Note, assuming you have average mechanical abilities, it would take a couple of months of earnest study and practice + a few hundred bucks in special tools/parts to get you off to a decent start.

    Willie X
     
  8. Salsagev

    Salsagev Registered User

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    Thanks for the advice, what is the stuff or reference materials I need for a project like this.
    And why is this helpful?
    Right now, I do have quite a bit of time for this but do I need a unwinder for this? In the near past, I just used wire to tie up the spring and unwind it with a key but that feels dangerous. And what’s the history and info behind this clock? There is a nice painting on the bottom of the clock.
     
  9. wow

    wow Registered User
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    #9 wow, Mar 24, 2020
    Last edited: Mar 24, 2020
    Sal, you will need a let down tool to release the power on the springs safely. You can make a temporary one using a piece of round wood about six inches long with a slot cut in one end that will allow you to insert a key into it. A broomstick will work, but a larger diameter is better. You can use a piece of wire to wrap around the springs to contain them. Then, on yours, you remove the retainer screw and the spring and wheel will come out. The bushings will have to be installed after the rest of the movement is disassembled. If you decide to tackle it, you will need a bushing tool and bushings. Look at Timesavers website and get an idea of the cost for these parts. Let us know what you decide.
     
  10. Salsagev

    Salsagev Registered User

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    What type of bushing tool do I need? There are stuff on there for a thousand dollars and some for 50 cents.
     
  11. Uhralt

    Uhralt Registered User
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    The bushings cost cents but you will need tools to install them. At least a hand reamer and an assortment of broaches.

    Uhralt
     
  12. Vernon

    Vernon Registered User
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  13. R. Croswell

    R. Croswell Registered User

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    Before jumping in head first I suggest that you spend some time with the books to learn the basics of taking a clock like this apart safely and the tools that will be required I recommend the books available here by Steven Conover; Your source for clock repair books Start with Clock Repair Basics. The book, Striking Clock Repair Guide has a section on this Gilbert Bim-Bam movement. There are other good books and I'm sure someone will come along and recommend their favorite.

    RC
     
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  14. Salsagev

    Salsagev Registered User

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    Thanks for the info but that stuff looks quite pricey. What is broaches.
     
  15. Willie X

    Willie X Registered User

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    Unless you want to get into clock repair, a one time overhaul is really not practical on many levels ... maybe not even posibable. To do a decent quality job (the first time out) would be very unlikely.
    Willie X
     
  16. Salsagev

    Salsagev Registered User

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    Should I practice on a cheap Korean clock.
     
  17. Salsagev

    Salsagev Registered User

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    This was a 68 dollar clock but I suppose I should of looked more carefully before purchasing.
     
  18. R. Croswell

    R. Croswell Registered User

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    In one word, no.

    The amount you paid for the clock is should tell you something. A typical clock in this price range is 110% worn out and the only guarantee you get is that it probably won't run, at least not for very long. If you expect to get a clock in good running order prepare to lay down some serious dollars for one that comes with a guarantee from a reputable dealer.

    Steve Conover's books offer good value for the price. If you plan to learn to properly repair this and possibly other clocks, there's going to be costs involved - cost of tools, cost of reference books, cost of clocks that will become the patients on which you operate...……..sometimes successfully and sometimes not so. Folks here can help with specific issues, but learning to rebuild a clock like yours takes time.
     
  19. shutterbug

    shutterbug Moderator
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    For tools and supplies, take a peek at this web site. Order their catalog. That will give you an idea of what is involved in repairing clocks, some of the tools you'll need, and what parts could cost.
     
  20. Salsagev

    Salsagev Registered User

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    So all this stuff would cost around a few hundred dollars just to get the basics tool? What about the advanced tools?

    What is a good price range for different clocks. I’ve seen many stories of people who got working clocks from antique stores for under 30$. I have even purchased a working Korean clock at a local thrift store for 12$.
     
  21. shutterbug

    shutterbug Moderator
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    You really never stop buying tools. I recommend buying what you need as you advance, to avoid sticker shock. A complete clock repair operation could easily get into a couple of thousand dollars. It just depends on how far you go with it, and whether you want to start making money from it.
     
  22. Kevin W.

    Kevin W. Registered User
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    Getting basic tools is not expensive. Getting someone else to do it could be expensive. Good time to start to learn. Aquire a few tools and read and read and read some more.
     
  23. rgmt79

    rgmt79 Registered User
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    Salsagev, your profile says your a student, does that mean you are college/university age? If so, it's great to see some young blood showing an interest in mechanical clocks. You have come to the right place to seek help and advice as you progress with your new hobby:) As shutterbug says, buy what tools you need as you go along and keep us posted on your progress.

    Richard
     
  24. Salsagev

    Salsagev Registered User

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    I need to change my age as I contacted staff. I am in middle school.
     
  25. skidog

    skidog Registered User

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    Maybe its the angle, but in picture #1, that crutch and pendulun rod just doesn't look right.
     
  26. Salsagev

    Salsagev Registered User

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    What’s wrong with it?
     
  27. R. Croswell

    R. Croswell Registered User

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    The best price of course is free. I have several that were just given to me by friends and of course I didn't expect any of them to run. There are bargains if one can find them and it helps to know something about the clock and why the owner is selling it and what condition it is in. The top end is of course in the tens of thousands of dollars. As for a price range for different clocks, especially clocks in as found condition, go to www.ebay.com and search for the type of clock that interests you, then select the "completed listings" filter to see what these have recently sold for.

    RC
     
  28. skidog

    skidog Registered User

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    Again it might just be the angle, but the crutch appears to have a worn spot where it has tapped the rod, looks like there is some chaffing on the rod which could cause some interference between them, and possible to grow some vegetables on the dirt in the crutch. If the movement was photographed in a vertical position, then the rod is crammed too far back in the crutch.
     
  29. Salsagev

    Salsagev Registered User

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    There is some grease on the crutch.
     
  30. skidog

    skidog Registered User

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    Grease is sticky
     
  31. Salsagev

    Salsagev Registered User

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    It is grease that came with the Horace white lock kit.
     
  32. wow

    wow Registered User
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    In photo 1, the suspension rod or hanger is riding in the back of the crutch fork. That will stop the clock. Bend the crutch back toward the movement so the rod is hanging in the center of that fork. That is only one problem, but it may help keep the clock running.
     
  33. bangster

    bangster Moderator
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    Look HERE for a series of articles on tools for beginners.
     
  34. bangster

    bangster Moderator
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    Letdown Tool: (PVC pipe instead of broomstick)

    letdown tool 1.jpg
     
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  35. Salsagev

    Salsagev Registered User

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  36. Salsagev

    Salsagev Registered User

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    Why is there silt?
     
  37. Uhralt

    Uhralt Registered User
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    So that the wings of the key can fit in. The slit is only on one end.

    Uhralt
     
  38. Ed O'Brien

    Ed O'Brien Registered User
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    Seeing thoughts about starting with a "cheap Korean clock" is scary, and not recommended. Most are 31-day, so they have powerful springs, and they are very cheaply made, so they can produce explosive surprises without proper knowledge, care and tools. Even with many years experience I will typically default to refusing to work on one unless I limit the work to minimal cleaning and lubrication or adjustments.
     
  39. Willie X

    Willie X Registered User

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    Korean clocks are a little harder to work on than the average clock, this is mainly due to the crowded space. The main-spring is actually weaker than the average American clock but about 50% longer.

    People very rarely get hurt working on a clock movement but you do need to know how to protect your eyes and hands. I've been repairing clocks for a long long time and it's by far the safest job I have ever had ... among many. Ha

    Willie X
     
  40. bangster

    bangster Moderator
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    Because it came from the delta. :Party:
     
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  41. bangster

    bangster Moderator
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    No Korean movement. Get an American movement "for parts or repair" off eBay. You won't regret it.
     
  42. Fitzclan

    Fitzclan Registered User

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  43. Salsagev

    Salsagev Registered User

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    Appreciate this, thanks.
     
  44. Salsagev

    Salsagev Registered User

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    Do I want a clock or just the movement?
     
  45. Kevin W.

    Kevin W. Registered User
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    Just the movement. If you just want to start learning, get a weight driven 30hour ogee movement. They have no main springs to contend with. But a American 8 day time and strike clock movement is a good choice too to learn on.
     
  46. shutterbug

    shutterbug Moderator
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    #46 shutterbug, Mar 26, 2020 at 8:00 AM
    Last edited: Mar 26, 2020 at 8:05 AM
    Yes, your profile page says you are 39 :D If you click on your avatar, you can change it. Happy to see you getting interested in a clock! You'll find the experience of repairing it quite satisfying ;)
    By the way, Gilbert clocks are notorious for having broken/cracked pinions on the center wheel. That doesn't mean that yours does, but it might. The symptom is that the clock runs, but the hands don't turn, or turn slowly.
     
  47. Salsagev

    Salsagev Registered User

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    I tried and it said i need to contact a moderator to do so.

    Some people earlier stated that time only movements would be for beginners. What type of practice is good on time movements?
     
  48. R. Croswell

    R. Croswell Registered User

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    #48 R. Croswell, Mar 26, 2020 at 11:40 AM
    Last edited: Mar 26, 2020 at 11:46 AM
    Probably the first thing one needs to learn is how to safely take a clock movement apart, clean it, and put it back together. Time only clocks have fewer parts and there is no complicated strike, so they are easier to work with but limit what you can learn. You can buy a complete clock, or just a movement on eBay. Many of the movements you find there are ones that have been taken out of clocks for one reason or another and sometimes are even missing parts. And what are you going to do with just a movement after you get it fixed? If you buy a whole clock it is more likely to have all its parts and more likely to not have been messed with. In addition to eBay, check your local Good Will store and Salvation Army and other local outlets, even Craig's List. I believe Good Will even has an online store.

    As far as the type of clock, every type has its own easy and difficult parts. Many here recommend a weight driven clock like the American OG clock. Weight driven movements are much harder to setup outside of the clock to test and observe running. I assume the goal is to eventually repair that Gilbert spring powered time and strike clock that you already have. You don't have much invested in it, so why not begin there? If you are in middle school that makes you about 13 years old. I taught middle school science for 18 years and had one student who was into antique clocks and old gas engines. Great to see a young person among us old ….. **I better not say to keep this G rated. Just remember you can't get to the top of the mountain in one leap, but you can get there one step at a time. Again, get at least one good book on basic clock repair, Your school librarian should be able to help you borrow what you need. Step one with your clock is to safely restrain and let down the main springs. You need to buy or make a letdown tool like Bangster's example. You need a camera or a cell phone that can take sharp closeup pictures. You will need some #16 rebar-tie wire to tie up the springs but you really need nothing else special to take that clock apart.

    Once you have it apart, you can set aside all the parts of the strike train and you are left with just a time only movement to play with. Just don't worry about making it strike. Learn what makes it run, and practice putting it back together. Once you have the time section fixed up, then look into the strike train. As for cleaning that main spring, before you tie it up with wire, use the letdown tool to let it unwind completely so it expands out the sides of the movement. Do the same for both springs. Then soak the entire movement in K1 keroseen and use a brush to clean the springs as best you can. Rinse in clean K1 and blow with compressed air if available and let it dry. Now wind up the springs and tie them, and take the clock apart. Dunking the whole thing in K1 IS NOT a substitute for cleaning the individual parts. It is a way to moreor less clean the springs so you can leave them tied up so you do not need a spring winder to put things back together. When you tie the springs, they should be wound up to be a little smaller than the main gear.

    One step at a time. Post pictures and ask specific questions about each step. Once it is apart we can determin what should be fixed and what must be fixed.

    RC
     
  49. bangster

    bangster Moderator
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    If you really want to learn, get a spring driven 2-train (time & strike) movement, and get familiar with mainsprings from the get-go.
    A spring-driven movement, you can set on the workbench and watch it go. A weight-driven movement, you'll need to build
    a test stand.
    And listen to what RC said.:)
     
  50. Salsagev

    Salsagev Registered User

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    Thank you for the advice. What is 16 re bar wire and k 1 kerosene? Am I supposed to reuse the kerosene? Do I take the springs out of the movement to clean or just put the whole move ment in? I always visit goodwill (but not now) to see if they have anything special, but they usually do not. I only found the 12$ Korean clock there once. But many people say goodwill makes the most on valuable items such as clocks, so they sell it online. There is lots of clocks on there. So I just look for time and strike clocks for a cheap price? Do you think they would be worth something when fixed up? Now back to the kerosene, is putting the movement in kerosene going to make it rusty?
     

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