Type of graver being used in this staff-turning tutorial video.

[MrRoundel]

Greetings all. I was watching a video on youtube that was made by one JD Richard. He's been hitting the video circuit for a while now and is providing some informative productions. I was watching his second segment on turning a staff with hand gravers when I saw him using a particular configuration of graver that I'm not familiar with for such things. Is it a graver designed for turning/making a winding stem? Cutting the detent channel specifically? Whatever it is it seems like it's a good one to have for removing material in smaller areas. As if they're all not small areas on staffs. Any help is appreciated.

The particular graver appears at 1:02:07 in the video. Cheers.
Narrow graver type?

 

[gmorse]

Hi MrRoundel,

Is it a graver designed for turning/making a winding stem? Cutting the detent channel specifically? Whatever it is it seems like it's a good one to have for removing material in smaller areas. As if they're all not small areas on staffs. Any help is appreciated.

It looks to me like a scorper, which is a profile used in engraving for making flat-bottom cuts, and which I've seldom seen used in watchmaking. As far as I can see, he's using it upside down and resting it almost under the work because of the rather square angle of the cutting edge. It's unconventional, but everyone develops their own techniques and it seems he's comfortable with it; it may not work for everyone. He has the graver in an engraving handle rather than the longer cylindrical one which most people find gives more control. The edge being at a rather obtuse angle to the graver must make for a very strong edge, less likely to chip.

His use of a stone to reduce the pivot to the right size is also unconventional; the way he applies the stone makes me wonder how the pivot can be truly cylindrical when he's finished. When he uses the burnisher on the pivot it isn't supported in any way, so the amount of pressure he can apply is very limited, and this too could result in a tapered, barrel-shaped or anything other than cylindrical pivot. This is where a Jacot tool should be used so that the pivot is properly supported and the burnisher is precisely located and controlled.

My suggestion to anyone watching this is not to follow his example, but go and read 'Watchmaking' by George Daniels!

Alternatively, compare it with these four videos.

Regards,

Graham

 

[MrRoundel]

Thanks, Graham. I'm looking for any help I can get. I thought the graver looked like one of those called an "onglette", which seems to be meant for engraving more than turning. I didn't notice the handle on it. It's just he seemed so controlled when cutting small sections, I was intrigued by it.

I had thought about doing the big AWCI lathe course that's this coming month, but traveling to Ohio just wasn't in the cards. I realize that there is an NAWCC class in April as well, but it's only one day, and it's going to take a lot more days, and a steady supply of ibuprofen.
When it comes to watch-work on lathes, there are lots of tiny cuts, but no short cuts. Cheers.

 

[Betzel]

My suggestion to anyone watching this is not to follow his example, but go and read 'Watchmaking' by George Daniels!

George, there are just many videos out there that this advice firmly applies to.

Too bad popularity and the ability to sell soap are the only modern criteria in a broad range of subjects, but the established or traditional schools for most specialized subjects are not in a position to supply "free" content, so we all have to choose our sources and video mentors carefully, and for everything. Hard to compete with "free" though.

Still working to unlearn a lifetime's worth of acquired bad bench habits...

 

[Betzel]

Graham, I actually called you George this morning --sorry! Not off to a great start, but now that the dental meds are wearing off, I took a minute to re-watch parts of the video. Actually, I think the guy's a pretty good guitar player...And, yeah, he's using a decorative cutting graver (originally designed for firearms, gold and silver, etc.) as a turning tool; thus, the odd handle. To each his own, but that handle was designed to transfer enormous pressure from the palm of the hand into the tip, as you can imagine from looking at all these gravers fanned out. Why he's holding it like a pencil? The Waller is no longer being made, but I like them. A great handle (very different from the other style) and at just under 2mm square, those old tips made cutting effortless, when sharp.

The old carbon steel on these was great, but people often cut the edge back so resharpening could be done often on a much smaller tip, quickly. And, it's not easy to cut a rounded shoulder on a staff with a square graver, but old oval hand gravers come in handy here if the radius is small. The graver he is using has not been pared down, so it will take forever to sharpen :-(

And, the 6mm gap between the work and tool rest looks like so many snapped off pivots of mine when the tool got sucked in and under. More bad bench habits. Hence the invention of the safety roller and going back in time to turn between centers -- perfect concentricity! The Daniels book is probably the best there is, but it's expensive. If you are on a budget, classic turning guidance is also available in less expensive (but not as much fun) books like HB Fried, DeCarle, etc.

 

[Thomas Sanguigni]

Betzel, I think Timesavers is still selling the Waller system. I have one of these, but I'm unsure of its proper use. I have used the super nice diamond wheel graver sharpeners when I was in horology school. Do you know any video or demo of the Waller sharpener? Not trying to hijack the post, but I want the best bench habits too.

 

[gmorse]

Hi Betzel,

George Graham, George Daniels, two of the main men!

I do prefer the long, straight handles like these. The ones in the wooden handles are old carbon steel Peter Stubs gravers and the ones in hexagonal aluminium handles are carbide from Eternal Tools.



There are several ways of presenting the graver to the work; I happen to prefer it with the diamond face downwards for most things, (as, I think, does Roger Smith), so however it feels most comfortable is best.

To cut the curved conical part of staff pivots, I use gravers with a small radius ground and polished behind the tips, just visible on these two.



For crisp internal corners, I find a graver sharpened like this works well, (this is for left-hand corners).



All the cutting edges on the steel gravers are well polished, which produces a correspondingly good finish on the work, reducing the need to polish afterwards in many cases.

The gap between the tool rest and the work can be difficult to judge, but mostly it's a matter of moving it towards the work as you reduce the diameter.

I think that ready availability of carbide gravers and the diamond plates and wheels necessary to sharpen them has probably killed the demand for systems like the Waller.

Regards,

Graham

 

[Jerry Kieffer]

Thanks, Graham. I'm looking for any help I can get. I thought the graver looked like one of those called an "onglette", which seems to be meant for engraving more than turning. I didn't notice the handle on it. It's just he seemed so controlled when cutting small sections, I was intrigued by it.

I had thought about doing the big AWCI lathe course that's this coming month, but traveling to Ohio just wasn't in the cards. I realize that there is an NAWCC class in April as well, but it's only one day, and it's going to take a lot more days, and a steady supply of ibuprofen.
When it comes to watch-work on lathes, there are lots of tiny cuts, but no short cuts. Cheers.

I think we all attempt to use a Watchmakers Lathe in a little different manner.
However, in general, a staff is typically roughed in on a watchmakers lathe and then fitting and surface finishes are applied with other tools such as a Jacot tool , burnisher etc. as mentioned by Graham.

Given enough time and skill development, this has proven to be an effective method of making a staff.

However it is not the only way and is not practical in a production setting due to the amount of time required for each staff.

The Lathe class I think you are referring to In April at the NAWCC is WS-117 and it is a two day class.
It is not on a Watchmakers Lathe or the use of a graver, but the use of machine tool procedures as utilized in production. The procedures cover the repair of existing parts as well as the fabrication of new exact duplicate parts.

In production, the durability of a staff is controlled on a consistent basis by hardening and tempering to a given Rockwell hardness. This is generally in the range of 50-55 but there are exceptions both up and down. Typically Staff dimensions are controlled by machine tool settings and surface finishes by proper tool selection. (Additional finishing work may take place on high end movements) While all of this is controlled by very expensive CNC machines in production, if you have a capable machine tool, leadscrew settings and cutting tool selection can be duplicated on a manual machine achieving the same results.

In the staff machining portion of WS-117, about 90 % of the students are able to achieve except-able dimensions and surface finishes on their first attempt with verbal instruction only on manual machine settings.

If your happy with what you are doing, keep at it. If not, do not hesitate to explore all options.

Jerry Kieffer

 

[MrRoundel]

Thank you all for your learned responses. I'll keep an eye out and save my pennies for the Daniels book.

Jerry Kieffer : My mistake. I didn't see that the class was two days. Still, it's in Ohio, which is quite a ways from SoCal. I'm sure it would be worthwhile, and after having attempted to cut a few staffs by hand, I appreciate the idea of using production methods (Cross-slides, etc.?). That would seem to give my hands, back, and eyes the break they need. And perhaps increase my odds for success? Then again, it ain't the tool, it's the fool behind it that's to blame here. Had I have learned when my eyes, back, neck, and hands were younger, I'd probably have had an easier time with it. Success seems rather elusive. Surely I need to spend more time at it, supervised or otherwise, in order to make a staff.

gmorse : Nice quiver of gravers, etc. I have been on the site for Eternal gravers. They look nice. I have started using the Waller that I have, including an extra tip that was sold as Grobet, since I discovered (Thanks to a post on the forum here.) the Dia-sharp diamond plates for sharpening. I definitely find a get a better cut for longer with them, but they still don't stay sharp for as long as I need to cut a staff. I'm sure that's all about my bad technique. And thanks for the links to the BHI videos. I'll check them out today.

Betzel : I am definitely guilty of viewing a number of free videos. Unfortunately, this is the only practical way I can see techniques put in live action. There are virtually no watchmaking classes in my area, or even the state for what I know. There may be a junior college in Washington state that has a class, but that would take moving to Washington for however many semesters the course is. Not practical. Videos? Practical. Free? Easier to overlook shortcomings of videos. FWIW, the guy, JD Richard, who did the video I linked to, has put amazing time and effort into learning watchmaking in order to share his experience as he goes along. I honestly don't think that he's been doing it that long, so his accomplishments are pretty laudable in my book. Do you, Betzel , have any recommendations for a good video tutorial on DVD or streaming? I'd be willing to pay for one that seems worth it. I just don't know of any. Until I do, free will have to do. Cheers.

 

[gmorse]

Hi MrRoundel,

Those videos were made by a member of the BHI South London branch some time ago, and while the quality leaves something to be desired, he's a skilled worker and his tips are well worth taking on board. One thing he covers at the start is graver sharpening, and whatever method you use, readying several for use before you begin to cut is excellent advice.

Regarding 'Watchmaking', you should be able to find a used copy for less than $40. I know someone who read it for the first time then went ahead and made the Daniels tourbillon watch which is described in the book, but with the Daniels coaxial escapement, from scratch, so you never know where these things may lead!

Regards,

Graham

 

[Dr. Jon]

I am far from expert but I have found GRS and Lindsay carbalt blanks make the best lozange gravers for me.

By far my most common mistake is using a graver after it has either chipped or lost its edge. It is essential to watch the chip as it comes off the work, regardless fo graver you use.

Part of this is due to how long it used take me to sharpen a graver. Now I have serveral diamond wheel tools and fixtures so I can re-sharpen a lot of gravers quickly.

Being able to spot a bad edge and sharpen are essential underlying skills.

 

[gmorse]

Hi Jon,

By far my most common mistake is using a graver after it has either chipped or lost its edge. It is essential to watch the chip as it comes off the work, regardless fo graver you use.

Yes, it's very tempting to try and make it last a little longer before sharpening it by pressing a little harder, but then the inevitable happens . . .

Regards,

Graham

 

[bwclock]

Thank you all for your learned responses. I'll keep an eye out and save my pennies for the Daniels book.

Jerry Kieffer : My mistake. I didn't see that the class was two days. Still, it's in Ohio, which is quite a ways from SoCal. I'm sure it would be worthwhile, and after having attempted to cut a few staffs by hand, I appreciate the idea of using production methods (Cross-slides, etc.?). That would seem to give my hands, back, and eyes the break they need. And perhaps increase my odds for success? Then again, it ain't the tool, it's the fool behind it that's to blame here. Had I have learned when my eyes, back, neck, and hands were younger, I'd probably have had an easier time with it. Success seems rather elusive. Surely I need to spend more time at it, supervised or otherwise, in order to make a staff.

gmorse : Nice quiver of gravers, etc. I have been on the site for Eternal gravers. They look nice. I have started using the Waller that I have, including an extra tip that was sold as Grobet, since I discovered (Thanks to a post on the forum here.) the Dia-sharp diamond plates for sharpening. I definitely find a get a better cut for longer with them, but they still don't stay sharp for as long as I need to cut a staff. I'm sure that's all about my bad technique. And thanks for the links to the BHI videos. I'll check them out today.

Betzel : I am definitely guilty of viewing a number of free videos. Unfortunately, this is the only practical way I can see techniques put in live action. There are virtually no watchmaking classes in my area, or even the state for what I know. There may be a junior college in Washington state that has a class, but that would take moving to Washington for however many semesters the course is. Not practical. Videos? Practical. Free? Easier to overlook shortcomings of videos. FWIW, the guy, JD Richard, who did the video I linked to, has put amazing time and effort into learning watchmaking in order to share his experience as he goes along. I honestly don't think that he's been doing it that long, so his accomplishments are pretty laudable in my book. Do you, Betzel , have any recommendations for a good video tutorial on DVD or streaming? I'd be willing to pay for one that seems worth it. I just don't know of any. Until I do, free will have to do. Cheers.

I use both steel and carbide gravers. I have found the Waller gravers to be useful, however I do not use the Waller sharpening wheel as it needs to be charged with abrasive, which is too much trouble. As Graham mentioned, there is a ready supply of diamond wheels available for sharpening gravers and I resort to using these for convenience.

I have found Waller gravers quite useful, perhaps because I have been using them for such a long time and got used to their size. I also use the traditional steel lozenge shaped gravers and make "custom" shapes from carbide or steel as needed.

The first photo shows the bench drawer containing the gravers I reach for most frequently, a variety of steel and carbide. The second shows another drawer containing spares. My nature is to prefer to not interrupt the flow of work to resharpen a graver, thus i have pre-sharpened Waller tips in the second drawer.

The third photo(quickly staged for illustration) shows a jig made by Waller in action, modified to suit my purposes. It is helpful for sharpening a bunch of tips at the same time so that they might be available for future use. I have other jigs for sharpening hand-held gravers but thought Thomas(Sanguigni) might want to see this Waller one as it is not part of the standard Waller kit.
Bruce

 

[MrRoundel]

gmorse : At $40 I might have enough pennies already. I thought someone mentioned it was quite expensive. And expensive in books on watches and watchmaking generally gets into multiple hundreds, or even thousands, of US dollars. I'll pick one up really soon, providing I can find the large print version.

 

[Jerry Kieffer]

Thank you all for your learned responses. I'll keep an eye out and save my pennies for the Daniels book.

Jerry Kieffer : My mistake. I didn't see that the class was two days. Still, it's in Ohio, which is quite a ways from SoCal. I'm sure it would be worthwhile, and after having attempted to cut a few staffs by hand, I appreciate the idea of using production methods (Cross-slides, etc.?). That would seem to give my hands, back, and eyes the break they need. And perhaps increase my odds for success? Then again, it ain't the tool, it's the fool behind it that's to blame here. Had I have learned when my eyes, back, neck, and hands were younger, I'd probably have had an easier time with it. Success seems rather elusive. Surely I need to spend more time at it, supervised or otherwise, in order to make a staff.

Actually the WS-117 class is held at the NAWCC school of Horology in Columbia, PA and is currently full. Distance to travel and being full is certainly no help.

However, if by chance this is a class you are interested in, the last time it was held was just before the Virus struck. At that time , it was held just north of San Diego, CA. in an attempt to ease the burden for those on the west coast.
Its possible that the next time it is held, it may be in the same location.

For anyone wishing to be notified of upcoming NAWCC classes, Contact the Headquarters.

Jerry Kieffer

 

[Betzel]

Do you, @Betzel , have any recommendations for a good video tutorial on DVD or streaming?

In a word, no. But, I hear you 100% on this promising medium. Someday, someone will make distance video training work well.

Until then, there are many good tips to be had in even the worst of free videos, and not just negative examples, like you try it at home, the graver slips under the work, cracking off beautiful conical pivots you spent so much time getting just where you wanted. What a great teacher though! Only one youtuber I know of (Steffen Pahlow) ever released a mistake, sharing a temporary setback, helping me develop some patience for my own mistakes. That's how I took his pocketwatch-case spring-making episode: I was no longer alone. Having slipped (not just .1 mm) many times with a hand graver, using a cross-slide at all times possible is sage advice. And, if your eyes are straining, as most of ours have, take a break and go look out the window for a bit. A wise man once said "all in good time..."

I also started late, which is why I have so many bad habits to work on that jump out in videos I see. I do not have any suggestions for any comprehensive video courses, but others may know. And, I believe many US onsite schools have now closed or returned to an unaffiliated status, so I can't speak for them, either. I hope you can make one of the classes Jerry mentioned. In my search, only the British Horological Instute offers a solid course where you can learn a "right and proper" traditional craft at your own pace, and submit your hand made practical work for tutor evaluation and constructive criticism, so this would be my suggestion to anyone (old or young) who wants to learn traditional watchmaking methods at home at a reasonable cost without relocating, losing the income from their current job, etc. Here's a link: DLC Technician Grade : British Horological Institute

Finally, not all youtube horologists are well-meaning amateurs. We all have our favorites, and videos are often not restricted to a single topic such as turning free-hand on a small lathe without cussing. Steffen Pahlow is someone I admire, likewise Roger Smith (rwsmithwatches), and Chris Budiselic (clickspring). There (were?) a few others, such as the Lititz SAWTA school (perplxr), but they have clawed back most of their great videos for legal and industry-specific reasons. Adding to what Jerry said, about machine tool procedures, if you wanted to learn basic machine shop skills, you would have to tolerate his intolerable sense of humor, but there is a Canadian guy who taught at a trade school all his life who has a channel with much to learn from: thatlazymachinist. Take the good parts with you for years of safe and accurate machining! More advanced, and (to me) very interesting is Stefan Gotteswinter. There are others, but I appreciate his quest for precise measurement and attainable accuracy, practical approaches to problems, and finding creative solutions expressed via the varied mechanical arts.

Do you know any video or demo of the Waller sharpener?

Sorry, Thomas, I don't, but like their handles more than their sharpening tools. Levin makes a much better (IMHO) lap and jig, the Levin Carbide Graver Grinding Set. It is not hard to see how either would be used, but there may be videos out there. Are they good instruction? Dunno. The best lap I've ever seen is for hand engravers using steel alloys, but it's $uper expensive, the GRS power hone. Maybe if I win the lottery?

I just use a chinese flat lapping plate (1200 and 3000 grit) on a piece of granite, and a Crocker style jig. Put some soapy water on the diamond plate, and slide the graver holder on the smooth flat granite slowly and carefully to get flat, then swap to the fine grit to put a mirror polish quickly. Debur and cut, all for about 10 dollars ;-) The black soup left behind should go into a paper towel.

Then, I chip it. So, now, I use HSS for roughing and only use carbide for the last / final touches.

 

[MrRoundel]

Thank you for your response and recommendations, Betzel . I have seen a video or two from some of the names you mentioned. And the I remember being impressed with the watchmaker/machinist skills presented. The BHI course looks intriguing. I'll look into it a bit more soon.

And oh yes, submarining brass pieces with the hand graver had me thinking I'd have a great career in baroque fish-hook design. Figuring out the best distances from the work is something that gets better with experience I'm sure, but I'm still far from being confident about it at this point. Cross-slides sound great, but their prices are going through the roof like all other watchmaker's tools these days. Thanks again. Cheers.

 

[Thomas Sanguigni]

Bruce, your right! That is a neat little holder. It looks a little like a Crocker with modifications. Can you tell us about it?

 

[Betzel]

Figuring out the best distances from the work is something that gets better with experience I'm sure, but I'm still far from being confident about it at this point.

Fair enough. Not sure exactly where you're at, but while you're looking for better books or videos, here are some tips you may find helpful. Many of us started out with no guidance, using hard material (steel) at high speed with a dull cutter, trying to rough it like we were in a machine shop. Lots of frustration Instead, I think you'll find a sharp tool, soft material (brass), and a slow speed with a light touch builds confidence with way more trial, and a lot less error.

Be sure your tool is so sharp it absolutely frightens you. Everyone's thumbnail here is scuffed up from edge-testing their cutters (and wanting to get them better). Hence the discussion on how to do that because it's not easy, especially when you're first getting started. I would suggest starting with a traditional graver (small, square, 2mm, in HSS) like this: Watchmakers' gravers They are way too long, but you can cut them and fit up a handle from a wood dowel by drilling, etc. Most of us only use 3/4 -1" sticking out of the handle. Whatever works for you. I wish someone had suggested to me to work on sharpening to perfection, before putting any graver to use. Oh well...

2) Place the tool rest as close as possible to the brass, and at a height suitable for your graver, such that the cutting tip of the graver presents right at the lathe's center-line. You may know this is where the dead center collet's point is. From here, you can experiment by lifting or pushing down on the handle (very slightly) to alter the angle until you find that "sweet spot" and chips flow like you're shaving butter with a hot knife. The first few good chips may be so thin you may not even notice them. That's how little pressure to use.

3) Protect your eyes, and start with 5mm "free machining" brass rod (hardware store) sticking out maybe 3/4" from your #50 collet. Face off the end gently with a file while turning a really slow speed, like 250 RPM. Then, go lengthwise (but slowly and lightly) with the graver along the brass to get the feel. Try gliding the graver dead flat on the rest, and just lightly along the brass, toward the headstock. It's more like peeling potatoes or removing old, wet wallpaper with a plastic spatula. Don't hog. Shave. Just just let the thin paper slide off as you lightly "shave down" the brass. While practicing, maybe leave 1/4" uncut near the collet, for safety, like a stump.

The rest of it will come naturally if you just let the brass teach you all it can. Then, follow the book or video and move on to steel?

 

[MrRoundel]

Thanks, Betzel, I know that's all good advice. I actually did buy some brass to practice on but probably got ahead of myself. I'll get back to the "shaving board" and turn some brass. There is a guy on youtube that gives the same advice and walks you through different procedures, setups, etc., for turning. I.E., facing off work, undercutting, parting, etc. I'll see if I can find him again when I dust myself off, lick my wounds, relax my neck a bit, and go at it again. Thanks again. Cheers.

 

[bwclock]

Bruce, your right! That is a neat little holder. It looks a little like a Crocker with modifications. Can you tell us about it?

Hi Thomas.
The Waller holder in my photo was designed for sharpening non-Waller gravers on a bench stone. As such it had a limited function. What I did was add a thumbscrew to the head so that I might be able to lock the head at different angles and turned down a Waller graver handle to fit in one of the slots, to hold the Waller tips. This to make it suitable for sharpening the carbide tips in a ww lathe.

Probably better are the Crocker pattern graver sharpeners, which are readilly available and can be adapted to use on a ww lathe. If you find an older one, the the body is clamped to the base and can be swiveled to use on a ww lathe (see first two photos). The newer ones are one-piece but can still be used as a holder in a lathe as seen in the third photo(some one else's clever idea).

The Waller carbide gravers were what was readilly available to us in the seventies. We did not have the internet to inform us of other products, hence the Waller's popularity. I never used the Waller system's wheel and diamond paste as it seems like too much fuss compared to Norton or Barkus diamond wheel or the diamond wheel supplied with the Levin graver sharpener.

If I were starting out now, rather than using Waller gravers, I would buy carbide in various sizes and make my own gravers. And maybe buy one or two from Eternal Tools to treat myself on a special occasion. The downside of the Waller carbide tip is that it comes in one size and is not very long(you are not getting much carbide for your money). Carbide is easy to chip and one can run through the length of the carbide(having to sharpen it frequently) in no time if one does not have a good touch. I use them and am happy with them as I have plenty of the tips already.

I just Googled graver sharpening and there is a lot of information out there. I suspect there are no instructions for the Waller kit as it probably envisioned one holding the graver on the t-rest while presenting its face to the charged wheel spinning in the headstock. Mention was made earlier of the Levin graver sharpener and the GRS (Powerhone) sharpening systems. I have owned both and have sold them. The Levin one I used a couple of times but it seemed limited in the size of gravers it would handle (I do have a the Levin diamond wheel and am fond of it). I ordered a GRS Powerhone but never got around to using it and sold it, new in the box, after fifteen or so years. It just seemed easier to use whatever mickey-mouse systems had worked for me all these years.
Regards,
Bruce

 

[bwclock]

Thanks, Betzel, I know that's all good advice. I actually did buy some brass to practice on but probably got ahead of myself. I'll get back to the "shaving board" and turn some brass. There is a guy on youtube that gives the same advice and walks you through different procedures, setups, etc., for turning. I.E., facing off work, undercutting, parting, etc. I'll see if I can find him again when I dust myself off, lick my wounds, relax my neck a bit, and go at it again. Thanks again. Cheers.

I agree wholeheartedly with Betzel about having a sharp graver. This cannot be stressed enough. It is human nature to see something not cutting and to think "well, I will just press a little harder".

Regarding your comment... relax my neck a bit ...I recommend using a binocular zoom microscope as its long focal length allows one to be in a relaxed position, hence no neck strain. An added advantage is one can see the material coming off the workpiece. The scope is also helpful when re-pivoting small arbors as one can see a tiny carbide drill at work to make sure it is not wobbling, hence ready to break off. An added advantage is reduced eye strain, compared to using a jeweler's loupe. Attached is a photo quickly staged, to show what I mean. The top of the eyepieces is approximately 12 inches from the centerline of the part to be turned which puts me in a relaxed position. Additionally, I like having my peepers far away from the work for safety's sake.

Regarding you previous comment... Cross-slides sound great, but their prices are going through the roof like all other watchmaker's tools these days...Why not wait to see if one might be useful to you. I have cross-slides but seldom use them as I prefer hand turning. I use a zoom microscope on a frequent basis. I seldom have a need for a cross-slide.
Regards,
Bruce

 

[gmorse]

Hi Betzel,

They are way too long, but you can cut them and fit up a handle from a wood dowel by drilling, etc.

I just drill a long hole in the handle and pull out enough of the graver to do the job, it saves having to cut it in half!

I use my cross slide mostly for boring with the mandrel headstock, otherwise very little else.

Regards,

Graham

 

[Betzel]

Graham, makes good sense; I'll try it.

After marring a few step-ring chucks, I say to myself "I'm going to drag out the cross slide out next time to avoid putting idiot marks on those rings" but I never do. Then, while saying to myself "okay, now go steady, and slow to mind that last bit" crack, it happens again. Same thing on something that needs to be flush up against the flats of the 3 jaw. I need to find a way to avoid marring those as well. Seeing that just about every used chuck for sale is dinged up doesn't make me feel better when I do it.

I could shellac the second cut on a big, flat brass. Probably a better way to cut the back side, staying concentric and not dinging things up. Going back in time often helps me to do better work. Strange, but true...

Neck and eye strain are REAL. The scope is a great idea, but also another expense that seems far away.

Reminds me of my first days turning, with all the frustration. My optometrist said my left eye had changed drastically, and asked me what I was doing that may have caused it. Well, it was me, with a chinese eye-loupe, and wanting to get it right so much that I did not stop to take breaks. When your eye doctor tells you you are hurting yourself, it's hard to say it's not a big deal...