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Two Special Quarter Repeaters

Ethan Lipsig

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I just added posts 17 and 18 to Please Show the Most Recent Addition to Your EUROPEAN (and UK) Collection. These posts are about two quarter repeaters I just acquired, one a trip repeater grande et petit sonnerie, and the other a retrograde perpetual calendar with moonphases. I don't know who made these watches. I would be grateful for any views you have about the watches or their makers.;
 

Ethan Lipsig

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Here are photos of those watches.

18k Unsigned Grande et Petite Sonnerie Trip Quarter Repeater

DSC06819.JPG DSC06823.JPG DSC06838.JPG DSC06869.JPG DSC06870.JPG DSC06876.JPG
DSC06829.JPG DSC06882.JPG DSC06892.JPG DSC06884.JPG

18k Quarter Repeater/Perpetual Calendar with Retrograde Days and Moonphase dial, probably by B. Haas Jeune

DSC06897.JPG DSC06899.JPG DSC06906.JPG
DSC06923.JPG DSC06909.JPG DSC06914.JPG DSC06920.JPG DSC06922.JPG

DSC06831.JPG DSC06877.JPG
 

Philip Poniz

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RETROGRADE PERPETUAL CALENDAR

The perpetual calendar does not resemble anything from the mainstream. There was a similar one in a private German Collection retailed by Hamilton & Co for the Indian market, with a minute repeater sold by Sotheby’s a few months ago (see below).

Hamilton & Co, London (1).png Hamilton & Co, London (2).png Hamilton & Co, London (3).png


The dial is the same, with the difference that the days of the week are digital. The cases are similarly decorated. I do not think they are from the same ebauche maker, though. This type of repeating ebauche was made by Aubert frères, Piguet frères, Piguet et Lecoultre, John Cezar Piguet, and Charles Piguet. I even know one sold by Victorin Piguet.

The Swiss, until about 1860, did not know how to make perpetual calendars without a retrograde date. Even after 1860, when Louis Audemars figured it out[1], the Swiss used the old system for more than twenty years. There are known examples even from circa 1900. These are rare though. Even Louis Audemars, the inventor of the new system, used the old one on more than just a few occasions.

There is a controversy about who invented the retrograde system, some say Elisée Golay, some Louis-Elisée Piguet, and some Eugene Lecoultre. Whoever it was, it was during the early 1850’s. It might be a good subject for the new column, Fact or Fiction, in our Watch & Clock Bulletin which is to be launched in November or December.[2]

The ebauche was made especially for retrograde calendars with the 4th wheel (the one fixed with the small second hand) moved to the 8 o’clock position and the train designed in a reversed C-arrangement. Retrograde calendars come in a number of dial designs. The basic categories are those with the small seconds placed at normal 6 o’clock, and the other with the seconds at 4 or 8 o’clock. The former can utilize any standard ebauche. This system was used by Courvoisier Frères, Eugene Lecoultre, Marius Lecoultre (a son of the former), Henri Grandjean, Huguenin et fils from Le Locle, LeCoultre et Cie, Louis Audemars, and some found on English watches that allow us to date these calendars within just a few years.

The second type, with the small seconds at 4 or 8 o’clock, are based on the old Adrien Philippe train arrangement. Ironically, Philippe treated it as a necessary evil and in a few years found a way to eliminate it.

I found these on Louis Audemars, Courvoisier Frères, Eugene Lecoultre (apparently, they used both types), Ekegrén, Patek Philippe (with ebauche from "Nicole & Audemars"), and even Tiffany & Co, Geneva (there was a short lived Tiffany’s enterprise in Geneva making watches from their own ebauches).

Within both systems there are many more divisions. I have always had an impression that these retrograde perpetuals were made individually or in just very small series.

Among a few dozens of retrograde perpetual calendar watches that came through my hands, I couldn’t figure out much of a pattern. There are over a dozen different types of dials, see below.

DIALS Screenshot (1000)a.png

The top left is most common, there are twenty of them that I know. If we go to the movements, see below, there is no common team at all.

MOVEMENTS Screenshot (1001).png

If we analyze the actual calendar mechanism it is not much better. The mechanism, roughly, can be divided by the way the date hand jumps, it does so either with a help of a hairspring, a cam or a rack (the famous La Merveilleuse by Ami Lecoultre has a rack system).

Hairspring Retrograde1.jpg Cam Retrograde2.JPG Rack Retrograde1.JPG

The hairspring one, I had though, was a characteristic of the Lecoultres and in auction catalogues I described them as such. It was difficult to figure out which Lecoultre because some are signed by Eugene (1819-1882), some by Marius (1847-1915), and one is signed simply Lecoultre under a hammer, presumably LeCoultre & Cie.

Unfortunately, a name stamped on the movement, even if under the dial, is rarely a name of the ebauche maker. Most often it is the etablisseur’s name. Complicating the matter even more, if we take the same etablisseur, like Ekegren, among his four retrograde calendars that I know, I could not find two similar.

In 2006, when Daniel Aubert published the Auguste Reymond’s rediscovered photos of 19th century ebauches, including a few with retrograde perpetual calendars, attributed by Aubert to Louis Audemars, it changed the perspective. Assuming that he is right and all the photos represent Audemars ebauches, the hairspring ones should be attributed to Audemars. On the other hand, the five retrograde Audemars calendars I know and took apart, do not have a hairspring system.

Then again, why would Reymond have taken photos of just Audemars ebauches? An early photographer, trained as a watchmaker, would have taken photos of any interesting or unusual watch or an ebauche.
The jurors of the 1896 Paris Exposition credited Eugene Lecoultre with the invention of the retrograde system. They were wrong because there are Breguets from the 1810's with perpetual retrograde calendars, but the possibility that he was the inventor of the hairspring type still remains[3]. Eugene was one of the jurors. The opinion described above could not have been voiced without his expressed knowledge. Therefore, he must have believed that he invented the retrograde calendar or, at least, one form of it.

So, even today we have little clue as to who was making retrograde calendars. Piguet & Lecoultre made some that were very distinguished because the sector is in a form of a subsidiary dial, which is usually set just under the 12 o’clock. It is also the most elegant one as far as the mechanism is concerned. The date hand flies back about 300°, while regular ones flies back only about 180°. Victorin Piguet made some in form of a sector, similar to Breguet’s from a century before. Actually, they made all kinds, including the hairspring type, but the sector design was the most common. The earliest Patek Philippe retrograde calendar, according to the records, was bought from Nicole & Audemars. I have never heard of such a company. Maybe, the basic movement was bought from Paul Nicole, and for the retrograde calendar the movement was given to Louis Audemars. A practice where a basic movement was bought from one company while an additional complication was made by another was something I found more than once browsing etablisseurs records.

Under the Dial.png

Generally yet, we are in the dark as far as the central-date retrograde calendars go, we have lots of existing examples but almost zero information about their makers.

My impression is that they were made for special orders or in very limited numbers by a few watchmakers using all kinds of ebauches. Who made the ebauches especially for these calendars that are with the seconds at 8 or 4 o’clock we do not know.

We know that one Arnold Huguenin from La Chaux-de-Fonds, best known for his mainspring patent for the 8-day cheap watches with visible balance and, possibly, the invention of the telephonograph, presented two retrograde calendars, probably made by him, at the 1889 Paris Exposition.

With a photo of the calendar, maybe I can match it with another known example. A photo of the repeating mechanism could be of help also.

Philip Poniz

[1] Hartmut Zantke claims the system was invented in 1862, Pierre Audemars claims 1860, but it must have been a year or two before because there exists a Patek Philippe with a Louis Audemars perpetual calendar, which was completed in 1859. Interestingly, the earliest Patek with retrograde perpetual calendar, I know of, is from 1865. For the six years before, all the earliest perpetual Pateks, I am familiar with, were based on the Audemars system. By Louis Audemars I mean the House of Louis Audemars, Louis died in 1833.

[2] If anyone knows or suspects published horological fictions or just simple incorrectness, I would appreciate if you let me know. Watch & Clock Bulletin is the first publication that is not afraid to tackle the problem.

[3] At least on the continent. Around 1760, Henry Hindley of York constructed a clock with perpetual calendar based on a spring like that.
 

Dr. Jon

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Thanks Phil for that discussion. Perhaps I misread your comments but I got the impression that Eugene and Marius LeCoultre were different firms. I beleive Marius was a successor and Euene was his father or uncle. I got this view via a Geneva regulation competition result in which one was the maker and other the regleur.
 

Ethan Lipsig

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Philip, you asked me to post under-dial photos of the quarter-repeater/perpetual calendar watch shown in my post #2. Dshumans took the photos and provided the explanation that I summarize below.

The calendar works are under the dial. The repeat works are below the plate on which the calendar works rest. I do not have a photo of the repeat works.

retrograde calendar 1.jpg retrograde calendar 2.jpg

This is a rack-type retrograde calendar mechanism. Breguet used the same type of mechanism. The month wheel is at 4:00. The lower flat segments are for 31 day months while the higher segments are 30 day months.

This little wheel clicks 1/4 turn every year so in the picture below, the top is notched by one day to create the leap year 29 day February, because lower is more days.

retrograde calendar 3.jpg
 
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dshumans

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Ethan,
Yes - the month wheel is the lobed disc at 4:00, under the little 12 point star click. The flat areas of the rim are 31 day months, the higher areas are 30 day months. Then there is a teeny disc attached to the back side of the month disc, shown at the top of the month disc in your last picture. That teeny disc increases the month disc height to make February 28 days instead of 30. The teeny disc additionally makes 1/4 turn per year and has a crescent shaped reduction in the edge to make the leap year of 29 days.
Regards,
Doug
 
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dshumans

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Philip,
Sorry, I don't. It was working perfectly, so I didn't want to remove the calendar plate, but I just had to see how the perpetual calendar worked. It's a very cool mechanism.
Regards,
Doug
 

Philip Poniz

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This is a rack-type retrograde calendar mechanism. Breguet used the same type of mechanism.
Right, Ethan, it is a rack system that Breguet also used. There are nine others like it in my screenshot, with the difference that they all have the pinion under the wheel while here it is over. The other major difference is that all but one are built directly on the front plate and not in a module form like this one. The repeating mechanism, if Doug is willing to take off the module plate (it is secured by just three screws), might shed more light. The photo of the repeating/striking mechanism of your sonnerie solved the attribution issue, I will write about it next week.
It is worth remembering that perpetual calendars on mechanical timepieces have a long history, the earliest one known is from the 1300's.
 

dshumans

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I rather expect that the movement of the retrograde perpetual calendar repeater is by B. Hass. Ethan's picture of inside the front cover has the signature mark of B. Hass Jeune, Geneva. It is identical to the mark pictured below from a signed Hass perpetual calendar repeater. It also has a moon phase dial with a very carefully carved gold moon face and gold stars on a blue porcelain moon dial like another signed Haas watch I have. So it seems likely that Haas made the retrograde watch. I don't know if he ever used an ebauch from others, but he was a genius in mechanical design of his own movements.
Doug

Haas Grande Complication hallmarka.png
 

Philip Poniz

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Philip, ... Here are under dial photos of the sonnerie.

View attachment 613923

Ethan,
Looking at the movement from the back I had thought that it might be a Louis-Elisée Piguet or Louis Audemars. The very same ebauche was used by both. In fact, alongside Piguet and Audemars, similar ebauches were made by Piguet Freres and Aubert Freres.

One look under the dial solved the puzzle, the ebauche was made by Aubert Freres.

The most interesting element of the mechanism is the vertical arrangement of the hammers. There is plenty of room to place the hammers in a horizontal arrangement, creating a simpler and more stable design. If the ebauche were originally meant for a more complicated watch, such as a four or five hammer carillon, for instance, then the arrangement would make sense. An etablisseuer could have finished an ebauche in whatever manner he pleased, including simplifying it considerably. Vertical hammers do exist in inexpensive repeaters, but in expensive sonneries I have seen them mostly in complicated carillons, often playing a Westminster chime.

Below is another Aubert Freres from 1855, with the same ebauche with the difference that the sonnerie is on a minute repeating mechanism and the hammers are in a regular horizontal arrangement.

Aubert Freres GetP on minute for JJ (1855).png
 

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