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Two C & L.C. Ives triple deckers

Bill K

Registered User
Aug 4, 2019
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A year ago I found an eight day, C & L.C. Ives (hereafter referred to as "Ives") triple decker that the antiques dealer had just gotten in and was happy to part with quickly. This clock (Ives #1) was in good condition with just a few missing veneer pieces, the usual repainted columns and replaced bottom glass, middle mirror and pendulum. While it didn't run the "cheese hole" strap works were complete and would need little attention and it had the original weights, an excellent face and a solid label. This week I found another Ives (Ives #2) which had been saved from a trash pile by neighbors who thought it "looked interesting. A fair price was agreed on and it joined the "family." It is missing its chimneys and splat, has a replaced lower tablet and cracked upper glass, the columns have been repainted and the veneer needs considerable repair. The face is excellent, the weights original, the label is rough but readable, pendulum original, has a beautiful, original, deeply aged center mirror and intact works similar to Ives #1. It actually ran after 190 years of neglect! #1 has the original ball feet, #2 has good front paw feet, ball rears. Ives #1 has a typical Ives label (P. Canfield, printer), Ives #2 credits the Ives's and includes "for Davis and Barber, Bristol Conn." with no printer readable. Now the questions. Both have the early Ives "A" frame works with the strike arm strap extension and the "hammer" end. Ives #1 has smooth wheels while #2 has raised reinforcing ridges just below the teeth on all wheels. Ives #1appears to have rolling pinions throughout while #2 appears to have lantern pinions on the #3 wheels, rolling pinions on the rest. The front fly arbor bushing on #2 awkwardly intersects the left vertical and top horizontal strap edges while #1 has it placed higher on just the vertical strap. The lower end of the right vertical strap is bevel cut to clear the strike hammer on #1, on #2 it is square cut. Otherwise both works appear identical. The cases (Ingraham?) are within about 1/8th of an inch of being the same size but the columns on #1 are slightly crisper and slightly smaller than #2. #2's case sides are unbroken while #1 has raised parting strips between each of the 3 sections (extensions of the internal structure). Both faces have the typical gesso and paint. #1 simply has the cannon arbor hole while #2 has the extended opening for works adjustment which is missing its mirror but retains the mirror channels. What do these differences tell about their respective ages and the like?
Lastly (this is too long). Ives #2 came from a rural South Carolina family who had it at least since before 1875. Davis and Barber left Bristol for Greensboro, Georgia in the early 1830's to take advantage (or avoid) the tariff unpleasantness (see "John C. Calhoun" and "nullification") and did well until 1849 when they apparently returned north. I believe that this clock has always been in rural South Carolina which was always stridently resistant to more expensive Northern industrial products. Did D&B manage to sell tariff clocks early on before realizing that physically moving to Georgia would be more profitable (and safer) or did they continue to use their old labels for a while when in Georgia before changing their locale address? Does anybody have any more information about these daring businessmen who became well respected in Greensboro?
OK, enough already, here are some photos, Ives #1 then #2. Hope they help! Thank you and Merry Christmas to all!

DSC_0070.JPG DSC_0073.JPG DSC_0079.JPG DSC_0078.JPG DSC_0069.JPG DSC_0074.JPG DSC_0081.JPG DSC_0077.JPG DSC_0076.JPG
 

rmarkowitz1_cee4a1

NAWCC Member
Nov 26, 2009
5,658
1,059
113
Country
A year ago I found an eight day, C & L.C. Ives (hereafter referred to as "Ives") triple decker that the antiques dealer had just gotten in and was happy to part with quickly. This clock (Ives #1) was in good condition with just a few missing veneer pieces, the usual repainted columns and replaced bottom glass, middle mirror and pendulum. While it didn't run the "cheese hole" strap works were complete and would need little attention and it had the original weights, an excellent face and a solid label. This week I found another Ives (Ives #2) which had been saved from a trash pile by neighbors who thought it "looked interesting. A fair price was agreed on and it joined the "family." It is missing its chimneys and splat, has a replaced lower tablet and cracked upper glass, the columns have been repainted and the veneer needs considerable repair. The face is excellent, the weights original, the label is rough but readable, pendulum original, has a beautiful, original, deeply aged center mirror and intact works similar to Ives #1. It actually ran after 190 years of neglect! #1 has the original ball feet, #2 has good front paw feet, ball rears. Ives #1 has a typical Ives label (P. Canfield, printer), Ives #2 credits the Ives's and includes "for Davis and Barber, Bristol Conn." with no printer readable. Now the questions. Both have the early Ives "A" frame works with the strike arm strap extension and the "hammer" end. Ives #1 has smooth wheels while #2 has raised reinforcing ridges just below the teeth on all wheels. Ives #1appears to have rolling pinions throughout while #2 appears to have lantern pinions on the #3 wheels, rolling pinions on the rest. The front fly arbor bushing on #2 awkwardly intersects the left vertical and top horizontal strap edges while #1 has it placed higher on just the vertical strap. The lower end of the right vertical strap is bevel cut to clear the strike hammer on #1, on #2 it is square cut. Otherwise both works appear identical. The cases (Ingraham?) are within about 1/8th of an inch of being the same size but the columns on #1 are slightly crisper and slightly smaller than #2. #2's case sides are unbroken while #1 has raised parting strips between each of the 3 sections (extensions of the internal structure). Both faces have the typical gesso and paint. #1 simply has the cannon arbor hole while #2 has the extended opening for works adjustment which is missing its mirror but retains the mirror channels. What do these differences tell about their respective ages and the like?
Lastly (this is too long). Ives #2 came from a rural South Carolina family who had it at least since before 1875. Davis and Barber left Bristol for Greensboro, Georgia in the early 1830's to take advantage (or avoid) the tariff unpleasantness (see "John C. Calhoun" and "nullification") and did well until 1849 when they apparently returned north. I believe that this clock has always been in rural South Carolina which was always stridently resistant to more expensive Northern industrial products. Did D&B manage to sell tariff clocks early on before realizing that physically moving to Georgia would be more profitable (and safer) or did they continue to use their old labels for a while when in Georgia before changing their locale address? Does anybody have any more information about these daring businessmen who became well respected in Greensboro?
OK, enough already, here are some photos, Ives #1 then #2. Hope they help! Thank you and Merry Christmas to all!

View attachment 628753 View attachment 628755 View attachment 628756 View attachment 628757 View attachment 628758 View attachment 628759 View attachment 628764 View attachment 628765 View attachment 628766
Nice finds.

Guess I don't have much to add to your thorough treatment.

See Ken Roberts' Ives for a copious amount of info about these clocks.

The Bulletin has quite about about the "Southern" makers, including Davis and Barber:

178_454a.pdf (nawcc.org)

See:

243_310.pdf (nawcc.org)

Scroll down to the table on page 314. According to that, Ingraham made cases for them.

Much more in the Bulletin. Do a search.

RM.
 

Bill K

Registered User
Aug 4, 2019
18
2
3
69
Country
Region
RM,
OK, thanks for the search ideas. You've said it before, I need to join NAWCC. Guess I'd better go ahead as more clocks seem to be appearing wanting to be adopted; I have a little less on my "plate" now that I've retired and have unloaded some other voluntary obligations. Thanks for responding, its always a pleasure.
WEK
 
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