Tooth repair, good enough?

leeinv66

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Hi all! This is a repair I have just completed for one of my own clock. I class myself as an amateur, even though I started working on my clocks more than 30 years ago. Most all I know I have taught myself or learned from a couple of very basic repair books I own. Well, that is until I stumbled across this fantastic message board a couple of years ago. So, here is the big question. Is this repair good enough? I mean, would I be hung, drawn and quartered if I was to ask someone to pay for this? Don’t get me wrong, I am not about to hang a shingle and start doing this for a living. But, if I were to sell this clock or do a similar repair for money, would it be acceptable:???::???: And yes, I will finish cleaning the rest of the wheel before I instal it:thumb:

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Robert M.

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Pete,I think you did a bang up job on your wheel.It looks damn good to me.At this point in my repair career I've replaced more than my share of damaged wheel teeth and I like to think I'm fairly good at it but all that being said I think your repair job is as good as any I,ve ever done or seen.
Congratulations on a job well done.
Respectfully,
Bob Fullerton
 

Tom Kloss

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Hi,

Whats wrong with making a few bucks from time to time? :?| Nice looking work. If that's the number 2 wheel of the strike side. I would make a couple of suggestions. Since the number one and two wheels of the strike train have quiet a bit of stress on them. the repair would have more strength if you dovetailed the inlay into the wheel. The inlay and the wheel should have a matching dovetail and the two pieces should be mechanically as tight as possible so a minimum amount of solder is used. If solder is used it should be hard solder. Ideally, the inlay should tight enough so that it can riveted in using no solder.



Tom :cool:

[colour=blue]“Sometimes you really don’t know if your being rewarded or punished”[/colour]


 

leeinv66

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Robert said:
Pete,I think you did a bang up job on your wheel.It looks damn good to me.At this point in my repair career I've replaced more than my share of damaged wheel teeth and I like to think I'm fairly good at it but all that being said I think your repair job is as good as any I,ve ever done or seen.
Congratulations on a job well done.
Respectfully,
Bob Fullerton
Thanks Bob! I work pretty much in isolation, as I don't know anyone locally that shares my love of clock repair. That means I don't get a chance to compare the work I do with others. Thanks for letting me know I'm on the right track:thumb:
 

shutterbug

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I agree about the dovetail being stronger. You also did it "the hard way" although very effectively. David LaBounty has a DVD that shows how to do the repair as well as other wheel issues, and it's a bargain. However, depending on the strength of your solder your repair should hold, and that's the goal. :)
 

leeinv66

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T.J. said:
Hi,

Whats wrong with making a few bucks from time to time? :?| Nice looking work. If that's the number 2 wheel of the strike side. I would make a couple of suggestions. Since the number one and two wheels of the strike train have quiet a bit of stress on them. the repair would have more strength if you dovetailed the inlay into the wheel. The inlay and the wheel should have a matching dovetail and the two pieces should be mechanically as tight as possible so a minimum amount of solder is used. If solder is used it should be hard solder. Ideally, the inlay should tight enough so that it can riveted in using no solder.



Tom :cool:

[colour=blue]“Sometimes you really don’t know if your being rewarded or punished”[/colour]
Yes Tom, it is the second wheel in the strike train. Dovetailing, yea, I can see how that would make for a better joint. I'll try it next time! I file the edges of the pieces so they fit together with a "V" joint. The fit is much tighter than the solder makes it look. A tooth repair with no solder! Now that's something to aim for:) Thanks for the good advice!
 

David Robertson

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Good job... Even parallel sides on the notch (rather than dovetails) with a good tight sliding fit will give considerable and adequate strength.

Remember.. the solder (soft is adequate) is only to hold the piece in place. Not to provide strength. The fit of the joint should ideally give the strength.. and the gaps should be so small that only a minute amount of solder is needed to hold.. thus it will be invisible.

Great first attempt. It will serve you well.
 

leeinv66

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shutterbug said:
I agree about the dovetail being stronger. You also did it "the hard way" although very effectively. David LaBounty has a DVD that shows how to do the repair as well as other wheel issues, and it's a bargain. However, depending on the strength of your solder your repair should hold, and that's the goal. :)
Thanks shutterbug! I'm sure the strenght will be fine. But what's the easy way:???:
 

dutch

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Good job Peter,

I have seen my share of "bodges" but most of them are still working. I just fixed a clock for a friend that had a third of a wheel soldered on to repair several missing teeth and was told it had been running that way for at least ten years. I saw no need to change things but would not use that method myself and would expect more from a clock repair shop but if an owner did the job I tip my hat to him.

Regards, Dutch
 

R. Croswell

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Not much I can add except the proof is in the pudding as they say. Looks like a decent repair, especially for a first repair. I bet she runs just fine!

I would install just this wheel, and the next two wheels with no others to make sure the depthing is good and that the replacement teeth and the pinion run together smoothly with no hint of binding or friction as the new teeth pass. (Two wheels so there will be just a tad of loading on the wheel.) Depending on how accurately you cut the teeth and positioned them (I like to fit and solder the blank in place and then cut the teeth), sometimes one may need to do a final touchup to get perfect smooth running.

Soldering is definitely an acquired skill. Ironically, the tighter the parts fit, the more difficult it is to get a good solder joint. Some keys to a good solder job are to have the parts absolutely clean and bright, use the right flux for the solder being used, get both parts to the proper temperature without over heating, and don’t allow the parts to move while the solder cools. Even soft (60/40) solder has an amazing holding power when the parts are properly fitted.
 

shutterbug

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leeinv66 said:
Thanks shutterbug! I'm sure the strength will be fine. But what's the easy way:???:
LOL, well as Robert mentioned, using a solid piece of brass instead of trying to pre-make the teeth (too hard to fit right), then cutting them in with a small file AFTER the soldering process. Also mentioned - be sure the height is the same for all teeth. A lathe is sure handy for that part. Heat from underneath, use plenty of flux (only where you want the solder though) and use a flattened piece of solder on top of the dove tail. It will lay there that way. You can peen the dove tailed piece in tight with a hammer. All of this and more is covered in David's DVD. You'd enjoy it, and learn a lot!
 

al_taka

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After soldering the brass blank in place, getting the teeth to be near perfect is a challange.
LaBounty had an easy checking method. Use some clay and make an impression of several good teeth. Then lay the repaired side on it to check teeth profiles easily.

Al T.
 

leeinv66

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Thanks guys for the feedback! There is much food for thought here. Especially the wide range of expectations expressed.

Shutterbug and Al T, I am not convinced cutting the teeth prior to instalation was the hard way. But, I will reserve my judgement until I see how that esay way is done:thumb: Anyone have an example they would like to share?
 

David Robertson

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Here is one example of doing it the other way...

A couple of comments.. I have a lathe and mill so I used them. The job can be done equally well by hand methods.

I am not terribly proud of the job I did. The plug ended up being slightly "thin" on one side and thus not as invisible as I would like...

The new teeth are slight larger than the existing teeth..

The repair worked fine... so I left it as it is shown. Aesthetics wasn't so important in this situation (in my opinion) as to require a re-do.

To see it Click Here

Please note that there are 3 pages.. the link to the following page is at the bottom of each page.

The solder referred to (Sta-Brite) is a low temp silver bearing solder.
 

Scottie-TX

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Looks good to me, Pee-Tah! Looks grate.
I wouldn't cut the teeth first, tho. I'd install a blank in the cutout and using other teeth for a template, lay the template on the blank and commence cutting to the template. I try to make them too long on the first pass because it is easier to make them shorter than longer.
 

R. Croswell

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leeinv66 said:
..................Anyone have an example they would like to share?
Here's one I did a couple of weeks back. Different wheel but the same idea. I fitted the blank first. Secured with dovetail and 95/5 solder, then cut the two replacement teeth. Last step was to shorten the replacement teeth so the wheel is round. Clock's still running so I guess it worked out ok.

In this case, the movement had another identical wheel so I just clamped the two together and used the other wheel as a guide - can't be that lucky all the time.

Bob C.
 

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leeinv66

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David said:
Here is one example of doing it the other way...

A couple of comments.. I have a lathe and mill so I used them. The job can be done equally well by hand methods.

I am not terribly proud of the job I did. The plug ended up being slightly "thin" on one side and thus not as invisible as I would like...

The new teeth are slight larger than the existing teeth..

The repair worked fine... so I left it as it is shown. Aesthetics wasn't so important in this situation (in my opinion) as to require a re-do.

To see it Click Here

Please note that there are 3 pages.. the link to the following page is at the bottom of each page.

The solder referred to (Sta-Brite) is a low temp silver bearing solder.
Thanks Dave, great pictures! If I had to make a choice, I would probably go with functionality over aesthetics as well.:thumb:
 

leeinv66

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Scottie-TX said:
Looks good to me, Pee-Tah! Looks grate.
I wouldn't cut the teeth first, tho. I'd install a blank in the cutout and using other teeth for a template, lay the template on the blank and commence cutting to the template. I try to make them too long on the first pass because it is easier to make them shorter than longer.
Thanks Scottie! Looks like I am the only one that cuts the teeth first and then fits the piece. Next time I will try it your way and see if it is any easier.
 

leeinv66

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R. said:
leeinv66 said:
..................Anyone have an example they would like to share?
Here's one I did a couple of weeks back. Different wheel but the same idea. I fitted the blank first. Secured with dovetail and 95/5 solder, then cut the two replacement teeth. Last step was to shorten the replacement teeth so the wheel is round. Clock's still running so I guess it worked out ok.

In this case, the movement had another identical wheel so I just clamped the two together and used the other wheel as a guide - can't be that lucky all the time.

Bob C.
Nice work Bob, very nice:thumb: Thanks for the great example!
 

R. Croswell

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Peter,

I think cutting the teeth "before" may be easier as far as the tooth cutting goes because you could more easily use the good teeth as a guide, but you would need to use a LOT more care fitting the "dentures" in the notch such that the spacing between the original teeth and the new teeth is correct where they mate. There is almost never just one right way to do something that is best for every situation, or every person.

Bob C.
 

shutterbug

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I'll just add for those that don't have a mill that you file the blank horizontally first, then cut downward between the teeth with a small file (notch file works great). That way you don't accidentally compromise the good teeth.
 

harold bain

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This hasn't been mentioned, but probably the quickest way to make this repair is to have a scrap movement with a "donor" wheel to cut the patch out of.
 

shutterbug

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Sure, that would work :). I just get brass from the local hobby shop. They carry various thicknesses and the cost is pennies per repair.
 

Scottie-TX

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Well, "no", it hasn't been mentioned:
This hasn't been mentioned, but probably the quickest way to make this repair is to have a scrap movement with a "donor" wheel to cut the patch out of.
---
But perhaps hasn't been mentioned because it's almost a given - that someone would try to find a mating wheel first. 'least, I would.
 

leeinv66

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R. said:
Peter,

I think cutting the teeth "before" may be easier as far as the tooth cutting goes because you could more easily use the good teeth as a guide, but you would need to use a LOT more care fitting the "dentures" in the notch such that the spacing between the original teeth and the new teeth is correct where they mate. There is almost never just one right way to do something that is best for every situation, or every person.

Bob C.
Yes, that's it Bob, I find cutting the teeth easier using the good teeth as a guide. And yes, I have to make sure the cut out in the wheel matches the "dentures". :) I may be an old dog, but I will give the other method a try next time. Who knows, I may find it easier!
 

leeinv66

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Scottie-TX said:
Well, "no", it hasn't been mentioned:
This hasn't been mentioned, but probably the quickest way to make this repair is to have a scrap movement with a "donor" wheel to cut the patch out of.
---
But perhaps hasn't been mentioned because it's almost a given - that someone would try to find a mating wheel first. 'least, I would.
I looked Scottie, but I couldn't find any of my wheels mating. I guess they are either past it or all the same sex:clap:
 

shutterbug

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leeinv66 said:
I looked Scottie, but I couldn't find any of my wheels mating. I guess they are either past it or all the same sex:clap:
That only happens in the parts drawer, and you never can predict what strange results you'll get :D
 

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