To bush? round hole, pivot question, gear question

Discussion in 'Clock Repair' started by Lynsey, Nov 19, 2019.

  1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.
  1. Uhralt

    Uhralt Registered User
    NAWCC Member

    Sep 4, 2008
    3,871
    388
    83
    Country Flag:
    Region Flag:
    The content per page will depend on the font size you choose for the Kindle. You could try playing with the font size to make the pages fit the numbers.

    Uhralt
     
  2. Phil G4SPZ

    Phil G4SPZ Phil
    NAWCC Member

    Oct 18, 2018
    306
    38
    28
    Male
    Retired Chartered Electrical Engineer
    Bewdley, Worcestershire, UK
    Country Flag:
    Region Flag:
    I did try that, but resizing the font made no difference as the book appears to consist of a series of half-page images. Judging by the page numbers and the sequence in which they appear, someone simply unstapled the original book and scanned it. Hence you get page 15 followed by page 42, then page 17, page 39... absolute chaos.

    Anyway, it was completely impossible to read so I have cancelled my purchase. Sad, because the content looked useful.
     
  3. Jerry Kieffer

    Jerry Kieffer Registered User
    NAWCC Member

    May 31, 2005
    2,478
    258
    83
    Male
    wisconsin
    Country Flag:

    Lynsey
    I just returned from beginners lathe class and only glanced at the messages.

    The most basic answer to your original question, is that any visual side to side movement of the escape wheel pivot as the verge locks and unlocks in a clean movement, decreases power to the pendulum. In such cases, proper bushing will improve function of the movement. Your escape wheel pivot needs to be replaced as others have mentioned.

    However, I did notice that you mentioned you were an instructor if my glance was correct. I did not see for what, for but it makes no difference. If so, instructors must prepare for the challenges that come with those students who deeply analyze all aspects of a subject. I would suggest that you prepare for this challenge in the same way.

    When I started out, I suspect I was considered one of those challenging students. As part of my research, I noticed that Horology Changed from the cottage industry methods to the interchangeable parts manufacturing methods around the 1850`s. From that point on, both watch and clock movements became very reliable and functioned flawlessly in most cases for many many years with proper service and sometimes even without.

    My observation regarding pivots and pivot holes, is that manufacturers provide straight round polished pivots in straight round holes where the holes are aligned parallel to the pivots/arbors.
    While this will obviously very from manufacturer to manufacturer and quality of the movement, smaller clock pivot holes can to be as little as .002"-.003" larger than pivots

    Due to the Manufactures service record over the last 170 years, I can find no reason to modify that arrangement. Thus my personal method is to duplicate the original arrangement of round straight pivot holes and pivots with parallel alignment. In the world of metal working, this has been proven to be the most durable, friction free method while maximizing the use of lubrication. (steel pivot and brass or bronze bushing)

    Over the last 40 years or so, I have asked the advantages of purposely broaching tapered pivot holes and the use of a smoothing broaches with no practical, logical or demonstrated explanation.

    Another point of view for consideration.

    Jerry Kieffer
     
  4. Uhralt

    Uhralt Registered User
    NAWCC Member

    Sep 4, 2008
    3,871
    388
    83
    Country Flag:
    Region Flag:
    That's awful! Good to know.

    Uhralt
     
  5. bangster

    bangster Moderator
    NAWCC Member

    Jan 1, 2005
    19,293
    328
    83
    utah
    Country Flag:
    Region Flag:
    #55 bangster, Nov 22, 2019
    Last edited: Nov 22, 2019
    Buy the paperback version. The kindle version is very buggy.
    To view CLICK HERE.
     
  6. Phil G4SPZ

    Phil G4SPZ Phil
    NAWCC Member

    Oct 18, 2018
    306
    38
    28
    Male
    Retired Chartered Electrical Engineer
    Bewdley, Worcestershire, UK
    Country Flag:
    Region Flag:
    Easier said than done this side of the Atlantic! I guess I’ll have to wait till a copy becomes available over here.
     
  7. Lynsey

    Lynsey Registered User

    Nov 7, 2019
    157
    32
    28
    Female
    Adventurer
    South County, Rhode Island
    Country Flag:
    Region Flag:
    #57 Lynsey, Nov 22, 2019
    Last edited: Nov 22, 2019
    Mr. Kieffer, thank you for your considered advice! Very much welcomed. Presently, I am a personal protection instructor who teaches on the State and Federal levels as well as authoring textbooks for same.

    I am sitting here reading Philip Balcomb's The Clock Repair Primer. It has a section on bushing which seems understandable to my brain. Sadly there is no section on pivoting. I have my shopping list of KWM #2 & #3 reamer, handle. Still looking for the pivot file/burnisher.
     
  8. Jerry Kieffer

    Jerry Kieffer Registered User
    NAWCC Member

    May 31, 2005
    2,478
    258
    83
    Male
    wisconsin
    Country Flag:
    Lynsey

    I think you will find Clockmaking and personal protection somewhat similar in that there will be a lot of opinions (Including mine) but only demonstrations will sort out fact from fiction.
    The same will be true of publications in that some will be helpful and others not so much.

    If you become frustrated, you can short circuit some of the issues with NAWCC workshops such as Micro Lathe and Mill classes. There are also onLine learning programs as well.

    Good luck
    Jerry Kieffer
     
    PatH likes this.
  9. Lynsey

    Lynsey Registered User

    Nov 7, 2019
    157
    32
    28
    Female
    Adventurer
    South County, Rhode Island
    Country Flag:
    Region Flag:
    You are entirely correct, Mr. Kieffer. 2.5 hours to the nearest Chapter of NAWCC and nary a clock repair facility in between. They have evaporated over the years. I was forced to repair my own GF clock over 10 years ago with absolutely no knowledge whatsoever and was most fortunate to have succeeded. Terrified of course, but doggedly determined was my mantra. I will do old school with an open mind to all methods. I have never stopped going to school, an education junkie if you will. I was just asked if I would marry a couple in the middle of an icy pond, in a park, in November. I politely declined. I should have taken the job, would have paid for my Merritts shopping cart. Oh well. Thanks once again.
     
    PatH and Kevin W. like this.
  10. PatH

    PatH National Program Chair
    NAWCC Fellow NAWCC Member

    Dec 5, 2014
    1,281
    881
    113
    Female
    Texas
    Country Flag:
    Region Flag:
    When we first joined the NAWCC, we weren't aware that there was a Chapter closer to us, so we drove 3 hours to meetings and classes in Dallas. It was well worth the drive to have the opportunity to learn and to be around a group of other horological folks. I know it's not possible for everyone to make this kind of trek on a regular basis, but it was well worth it for us.

    Pat
     
  11. peanuts

    peanuts Registered User

    Mar 21, 2017
    368
    36
    28
    Male
    Retired
    Shaftesbury, UK
    Country Flag:
    Region Flag:
    It seems to be available on Amazon in the UK: https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/1717934250/
     
  12. Phil G4SPZ

    Phil G4SPZ Phil
    NAWCC Member

    Oct 18, 2018
    306
    38
    28
    Male
    Retired Chartered Electrical Engineer
    Bewdley, Worcestershire, UK
    Country Flag:
    Region Flag:
    Why didn’t I spot that? Duuhh...:( thank you, Peanuts! I’ve ordered a copy.

    Phil
     
  13. bangster

    bangster Moderator
    NAWCC Member

    Jan 1, 2005
    19,293
    328
    83
    utah
    Country Flag:
    Region Flag:
    Peanuts beat me to it!
     
  14. Phil G4SPZ

    Phil G4SPZ Phil
    NAWCC Member

    Oct 18, 2018
    306
    38
    28
    Male
    Retired Chartered Electrical Engineer
    Bewdley, Worcestershire, UK
    Country Flag:
    Region Flag:
    The paperback version of ‘This Old Clock’ has now arrived, and it’s excellent. I just wish I’d had it 18 months ago, as it would have saved me a lot of time in the major battle I had restoring my first American clock, an Ansonia ‘El Regalo’. Better late than never, though. There’s still plenty of reading and reference material in the book.

    Phil
     
  15. Lynsey

    Lynsey Registered User

    Nov 7, 2019
    157
    32
    28
    Female
    Adventurer
    South County, Rhode Island
    Country Flag:
    Region Flag:
    Thank you, Phil. Good advice for a newbie. I will wait for mine to arrive this week before tearing into anything more or ordering off the cuff!! Much appreciated.
    Lynsey
     
  16. Phil G4SPZ

    Phil G4SPZ Phil
    NAWCC Member

    Oct 18, 2018
    306
    38
    28
    Male
    Retired Chartered Electrical Engineer
    Bewdley, Worcestershire, UK
    Country Flag:
    Region Flag:
    We were all newbies once, Lynsey. I've only been doing this to any extent for the past three years and I still consider myself very much a newbie, but I have gained a heck of a lot of knowledge through reading books and by taking advice from this excellent message board. I made my own quite successful pivot burnisher out of a length of square-section steel of the kind used in door handles, which works well, albeit slowly. I have never needed a bushing tool either - if you search for an excellent thread entitled "Bushing using hand tools" by Bangster, it will get you off to a flying start. I've just invested in a mainspring winder, purely because not having one was holding me back. There is no need to buy expensive tools either, and I've just bought a few at a time as I needed them, mainly good quality files, pliers, tweezers, pin vices, broaches and screwdrivers, plus consumables like pegwood, pithwood and clock cleaning fluid.

    Probably the best advice I ever received came from Dick Feldman, that wear is responsible for the vast majority of clock faults, and it's absolutely true. I have also learned that there are rarely any 'quick fixes' in clock repair. Repairing the majority of faults will necessitate completely dismantling the movement and painstakingly cleaning and checking every component. Three years ago I had never even let down a mainspring, let alone dismantled a movement, but once you grasp the nettle it is not that difficult. I have done bushing, replaced trundles, replaced suspensions, hairsprings and all sorts of other repairs, all successfully, although none of this has come quickly. I only do this voluntarily as a hobby, so the cost of my time is immaterial. Working slowly, taking photos, making sketches and observing everything as meticulously as you can are all vital. Professional horologists do this to make a living and hence face far greater pressures, yet so many of them are prepared to offer their advice freely through the MB to amateurs like myself, for which I am truly grateful.

    I think the thing that has surprised me most is how badly some clocks have been repaired previously. I have managed to get them all going, and leave them in far better condition than when they arrived!

    Phil
     
  17. Kevin W.

    Kevin W. Registered User
    NAWCC Member

    Apr 11, 2002
    21,689
    223
    63
    I work at the Veritas Tools machine shop.
    Nepean, Ontario, Canada
    Country Flag:
    Region Flag:
  18. woodlawndon

    woodlawndon Registered User
    NAWCC Member

    Jan 18, 2017
    608
    119
    43
    Male
    Woodlawn, Ontario
    Country Flag:
    Region Flag:
    I have several clock repair books and each one seems to be good in different areas which is great. But I think the thing that helped me most when I first started was that I read every single historical post in the repair section of this forum, it took me days. My thinking then was that I wanted to read about the typical problems I would be encountering and how to solve them. I confess that some threads I didn't really know what was being discussed then, but it sticks in your mind so that when you get up to speed you say, "oh yeah, I remember that being discussed". There are some masters on this board, both living and not, that inspire me to do the best work possible.
    Don
     
    PatH and Kevin W. like this.
  19. Phil G4SPZ

    Phil G4SPZ Phil
    NAWCC Member

    Oct 18, 2018
    306
    38
    28
    Male
    Retired Chartered Electrical Engineer
    Bewdley, Worcestershire, UK
    Country Flag:
    Region Flag:
    The most helpful books and articles I’ve read have been by Donald deCarle, T R Robinson, Laurie Penman and Steven Conover. Robinson’s ‘Modern Clocks’ is particularly comprehensive and covers electric clocks as well.
     
  20. Lynsey

    Lynsey Registered User

    Nov 7, 2019
    157
    32
    28
    Female
    Adventurer
    South County, Rhode Island
    Country Flag:
    Region Flag:
    Thank you so much, gentlemen! I am pleased to tell you that I have spent more money on books than I have on tools at this point. That has always been the way I start my new endeavours. Our personal library would make a good small town library nervous. My first book was Mr. Penman's, should have been my third or fourth.
     
    Kevin W. likes this.
  21. Rockin Ronnie

    Rockin Ronnie Registered User
    NAWCC Member

    Nov 18, 2012
    1,444
    86
    48
    Male
    retired educator
    Greenfield, Nova Scotia
    Country Flag:
    Region Flag:
    For anyone starting out in clock repair there is a lot of good advice in this thread.
    Ron
     

Share This Page