Tick and tock sounds on deadbeat escapements

[bikerclockguy]

Still working on my ST2, and have a question. From studying the diagram below, it look like when a deadbeat escapement is started from rest, the first swing of the pendulum should be to the left, so am I correct in assuming the “tick” should occur on the left swing? In trying to get it into beat, I have discovered that it is possible to reverse the ticks and tocks. I have a basic understanding of the principles, but when try to set the best, I cannot see what the escapement is doing, and have to rely on sound alone(which theoretically, should not be a problem). I struggled mightily with this for several days on my first attempt, and finally got it in beat, but I can’t remember if the tick was to the left or not. I know it was correct, because it ran for several days. I replaced a missing plate screw, and discovered 2 of the other 3 were loose, and I tightened those while I was at it, and that changed the geometry enough to stop it. I didn’t touch it for several days, deciding to wait for my crutch pin escutcheon to arrive from a backorder. Got it in yesterday, installed it, and I‘m hack to trying to set the beat. So….tick to the left and tock to the right? Thanks!

 

[shutterbug]

The tick and tock result from the drop and the corresponding collision with the next tooth. On a dead beat clock, theoretically they should sound the same ... but that is rarely the case. You would have to know which direction your escape wheel is running, and the entry pallet would create the "tick" sound. It could be either the left or right swing of the pendulum, again depending of the design, but I think the majority of them run clockwise on the escape wheel, so the left swing would be correct.

 

[bikerclockguy]

The tick and tock result from the drop and the corresponding collision with the next tooth. On a dead beat clock, theoretically they should sound the same ... but that is rarely the case. You would have to know which direction your escape wheel is running, and the entry pallet would create the "tick" sound. It could be either the left or right swing of the pendulum, again depending of the design, but I think the majority of them run clockwise on the escape wheel, so the left swing would be correct.

Thanks, Shut! I just realized there is no frame of reference on the diagram, so we don’t know if we are looking at the crutch side or the other side. It looks like he referenced it from the other side, which makes sense, since most long clocks have the crutch and pendulum in the rear. If I ever do another movement of this type, I’m definitely going to build a wooden stand so I can get the movement running while it’s out of the case. I realize adjustments will have to be made after mounting, but it has to be easier than doing it without that. I realize now what I have to do. I’ll shine a light up into the case, and make sure that, from a rest, moving the pendulum back and forth by hand, and starting from a swing to the left, the sequnce unfolds as above. If I have that right, the rest(setting the beat) is just a matter of timing, which I can do by ear.

 

[bikerclockguy]

I just realized I already have a movement stand. I built this for spraying lacquer on gun stocks, and the “post” is 1/2” all-thread, which is the same size as the posts on the movement stand I already have. All I have to do is buy a 1/2” threaded sleeve and rig up a pendulum hanger and I’m in business(with some cardboard shims for leveling, of course).

 

[JayKosta]

Just curious, how difficult is it to adjust the beat on that clock? Can it be done with the clock fully assembled in its case?
Also, for beat setting on that type of clock, is there a need to be concerned which sound is tic or toc?
Can't it be set correctly by just listening and gently adjustments for equal time intervals?

 

[John MacArthur]

You say " a deadbeat escapement is started from rest, the first swing of the pendulum should be to the left," which is only right half the time. Most people don't pay attention to it, but usually a dead-beat clock will come to rest with one tooth on an impulse face. One should, if they can determine which one it's on, start the pendulum so that scape tooth can continue off the impulse face. If one started it the other way, it will have to climb up the impulse face backwards, potentially causing damage. The way I usually do it is to give the pendulum a tiny wiggle, and watch the second hand; if I am going the correct direction, the second hand will advance, if I'm going the wrong way, the second hand will start to move backwards, and I know to swing it the other way.
Johnny

 

[Willie X]

It doesn't mater a bit which way you start the pendulum on a stopped clock.

As Jay mentioned in Post #5, the 'beat' is all about time intervals and has absolutely nothing to do with the quality of the sounds. If the drops are equal, the sounds will be what they are. Tick-Tock, Tick-Tick, Tock-Tock, doesn't matter. It's a very simple mechanism, try not to overthink it.

As for the quality of the ticking sounds, the ticks (or Tocks) should always have a sharp metallic sound. Loud and steady is what you want, zero variations.

Willie X

 

[bruce linde]

Just curious, how difficult is it to adjust the beat on that clock? Can it be done with the clock fully assembled in its case?
Also, for beat setting on that type of clock, is there a need to be concerned which sound is tic or toc?
Can't it be set correctly by just listening and gently adjustments for equal time intervals?

three questions... here are short answers:
- not that hard
- no
- yes

and here's the long answer:

after owning a bunch of these, i get the crutch set up when servicing to tick so the crutch swings equally to the left and right... .visually. i then put the movements back in the cases, which get hung on the wall with a black sheetrock screw through one of the inevitable holes through the inside back of the case... after leveling both with a level and visually. from there, the process is:

1. listen to ticking and determine if the ticks come faster when the pendulum is swinging toward a particular direction

2. since the case is now secured to the wall, the only way to adjust the beat is to bend the crutch SLIGHTLY toward the faster tick side... which entails reaching up behind the dial and movement to find the crutch, push the pendulum back to ease the crutch out of the crutch slot, make a minor adjustment bend in the crutch (toward the faster tick side), maneuver the crutch back into the slot, and check again.

3. rinse and repeat until the ticking is dead even. there's not a lot of room in which to work, but it can be done. this process let's you dial in the beat with the clock hanging 'level'.... by appearances if the case is not totally true, or by actual level if it is



if the clock has been serviced well, and the escape wheel teeth are perfectly even, and verge isn't worn, and the EW and verge bushings are perfectly fine-tuned and the drops are equal... .the ticks and tocks should be the same.... but the ideal is more often than not a goal as opposed to reality. i have movements where the ticks are waaay louder than the tocks, or vice versa... .i guess that means that the setup could be better, but in most of the cases it's pretty good, and as good as it's going to get.

the goal is dead-even spacing between ticks and tocks... how the ticks and tocks sound is far less important.... possibly helpful, but not anywhere as much as the movement being in beat.

 

[bikerclockguy]

Bruce, your method sounds like what I’ve been doing, with one exception, and I think it may be the thing I’ve been looking for. When you set the crutch up with the movement out of the case, so it “swings equally to the left and right…visually”, are you referring to the amount of free travel or “slack“ or however you want to put it, before a pallet locks on a tooth on the EW? I’m dead in the water for a few days, as the pickup for my beat amplifier came apart on me this afternoon. Got another one ordered, and if all goes well I’ll have it by mid-week. Thanks to all for your responses!

 

[bruce linde]

i inspect visually but am watching the crutch more than the EW and verge interactions... the more i can get it balanced left/right before putting back in the case, the less mucking about will be required when it's on the wall.

 

[bikerclockguy]

i inspect visually but am watching the crutch more than the EW and verge interactions... the more i can get it balanced left/right before putting back in the case, the less mucking about will be required when it's on the wall.

So, equalizing the “free travel”?

 

[Willie X]

You can often find some existing hole in the center of the plate for reference. If not make a Sharpie mark at bottom center. Then, just move the leader back and forth while listening to the escapement. Bend (or force) the leader left or right as necessary to center the beat to the reference mark. No need to spend a lot of time here, just get it close because the movement will not usually be mounted exactly plumb in the case.

This trick is helpful on many clocks.

Willie X