Three weight skipping problem.

Discussion in 'Clock Repair' started by Carl Bergquist, Mar 25, 2013.

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  1. Carl Bergquist

    Carl Bergquist Registered User

    Oct 27, 2010
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    I have a three weight Vienna with the quarter striking train "skipping". What I mean is that it will repeat the count 1,2,3 or 4 many times over before it stops and triggers the count train. So, after a day or two the right weight will be very low or on the bottom of the case. I have removed the face and watched this skip, tried adjusting the tension on the rack but the skip always returns. What might the problem be?
     
  2. shutterbug

    shutterbug Moderator
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    It's not locking after the chime. There are several ways this is accomplished, so some pics of your movement showing the right side train will be needed. There's also an auto-synch feature, and that will stop the chime when it's accessed. Then the chime will release at the hour again. That's what's causing the symptoms you describe. Get some pics, and we'll be able to help you get it set right. :)
     
  3. Richard T.

    Richard T. Deceased
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    Sorry SB but if you read the post again you will see that the clock in question is a three weight, grand Sonnerie Vienna regulator.

    This isn't a chiming clock but a striking one.
     
  4. R&A

    R&A Registered User

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    Is this what your movement looks like ?? H/C attachment.jpg
     
  5. Carl Bergquist

    Carl Bergquist Registered User

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    The picture is correct. I have tried adjusting the tension and looked at the teeth on the rack. Could the gathering pallet be worn so that is not pushing the rack not qiute far enough to the right?
     
  6. R&A

    R&A Registered User

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    The gather pallet could be worn. But you can adjust the rack as to where it makes contact also. If the pallet is not locking out on the pin to the left side of the rack. Then it is out of adjustment. The rack tail can be adjusted. If it is to loose then you will have to stake it in place so it doesn't move. It should be mounted on a brass collar. If the gather pallet is worn it will have a notch cut out of the leading edge.

    H/C
     
  7. Tinker Dwight

    Tinker Dwight Registered User

    Oct 11, 2010
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    A video would make it easy to see the problem.
    H/C is right though, it could be either the rack hook not catching
    or the gathering pallet not advancing.
    Tinker Dwight
     
  8. Carl Bergquist

    Carl Bergquist Registered User

    Oct 27, 2010
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    Thanks for the suggestions. I will take the face off again and concentrate on the gathering pallet. When the face is on the clock you can hear the rack keep returning back to the left to start over, then it will advance one, two or three and snap back to start over and over and over. Other times it will work perfectly at any of the quarters and for several days, the weights will drop evenly. Later I will walk by and the weight will be bottomed out. If I don't find the problem I will try to make a little video and repost next week. Thanks again.
     
  9. shutterbug

    shutterbug Moderator
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    Watch it while it's gathering the teeth. As it gathers a tooth, another lever holds it in place. That lever must not be doing it's job. Find out why, and you're on your way to curing it.
     
  10. Carl Bergquist

    Carl Bergquist Registered User

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    You are right Shutterbug and I have made sure that this locking lever moves free and easy, but the skip happens so fast that my eye can't see a problem or not. I'll pull the movement AGAIN and start watching. Give me a few days and I'll report back.
     
  11. Tinker Dwight

    Tinker Dwight Registered User

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    That is why I suggest the video. We can stop it with a pause and see which
    position the gathering pallet is in when it skips. A couple times with the pause
    does wonders that the eye can't catch.
    Tinker Dwight
     
  12. R&A

    R&A Registered User

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    You might try stopping the butterfly while watching the movement so it doesn't act so fast. Stop and release stop and release. This might help some.

    H/C
     
  13. Carl Bergquist

    Carl Bergquist Registered User

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    #13 Carl Bergquist, Mar 28, 2013
    Last edited: Mar 28, 2013
    A single skip and a multiple skip two videos (I think). Sorry the videos play on youtube but not here.
     
  14. shutterbug

    shutterbug Moderator
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    add the URL here and I'll link it for you.
     
  15. Carl Bergquist

    Carl Bergquist Registered User

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  16. R&A

    R&A Registered User

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    You need to adjust the tail on the rack. The Keeper that holds the rack is only landing half way between the teeth on the rack. This will make it skip if the gathering pallet can't land on the teeth properly. The rack tail will have to be moved to the right to get a deeper drop. I don't see anything else that it could be.

    H/C
     
  17. Tinker Dwight

    Tinker Dwight Registered User

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    #17 Tinker Dwight, Mar 29, 2013
    Last edited: Mar 29, 2013
    I agree with H/C. You might also check the clearence
    betwwen the gathering pallet and the hook. It might
    be touching it at the wrong time.
    The gathering pallet should only touch the hook
    when it is engaged in the rack.
    Rotate it slowly as was suggested earlier by holding the fan.
    Tinker Dwight
     
  18. Carl Bergquist

    Carl Bergquist Registered User

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    I did see that the hook was not dropping into the teeth. Is the rack "tail" the same as the rack extension or is the tail below the pivot and how do you adjust either? I don,t know why one of the videos work and the other doesn't, maybe I can't put two on one post?
     
  19. shutterbug

    shutterbug Moderator
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  20. shutterbug

    shutterbug Moderator
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    I wonder if there should be a helper spring on the top lever? Or perhaps the spring on the rack tail is too strong.
     
  21. Carl Bergquist

    Carl Bergquist Registered User

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    Thanks for the video help Shutterbug. I have tried weakening the return spring power. I had to take thirty or forty little videos before I got two skip actions so this thing does work most of the time and when it skips it usually only skips once, but then is does the multiple skip as in video one.
     
  22. Bill Stuntz

    Bill Stuntz Registered User
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    Excessive wear (rounded tip) on the rack hook so it doesn't reliably catch the rack teeth??
     
  23. David S

    David S Registered User
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    That is what was going thur my mind Bill.
     
  24. Carl Bergquist

    Carl Bergquist Registered User

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    Interesting point Dave and Bill, video two shows that the hook is not seated when the action stops. I am going to watch and see if that is always the case. I still feel that I could reduce the spring power some and maybe the hook would seat. Back to work. Thanks everybody.
     
  25. Tinker Dwight

    Tinker Dwight Registered User

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    I'm going with too much spring power, now that I've seen the first
    video. One can clearly see that when it catches the hook falls
    all the way into the tooth. When it doesn't, it is only part way in.
    As for the rack tail, it only looked wrong on the single strike. That
    may have been the position of the snail. It looks right on the
    multiple count. I would leave the rack tail alone until you lighten
    up the rack spring. Remember, all it has to do is make the rack
    fall. It doesn't have to be fast as the clock holds it for some
    time while in warning.
    Tinker Dwight
     
  26. R&A

    R&A Registered User

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    Move everything by hand and it will slow the motion so you can catch it. If everything lands mechanically sound and no adjustments are to be made on the tail. Then check the tension on the spring. Not one before the other.

    H/C
     
  27. Carl Bergquist

    Carl Bergquist Registered User

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    Possibly solved. This morning I carefully took the spring tension off of the rack, expecting the hook to settle into the teeth- didn't happen. Then I wiggled the rack back and forth, the hook remained where it was. Maybe the hook was worn so I took the retaining pin out of the hook pivot but I had to remove the flirth. Before I did I noticed that the hook had settled nicely into the teeth. Da. I have been thru many quarters but the hook seems to be working just fine, strong lock, has not skipped. I can not see any problem with the pin and I did not have a spacer between the pin and the rack hook. I won't say that the problem is solved until it runs a week, but I am somewhat optimistic. Thanks again to all for your interest. Shutterbug, I will go the practice area and learn to post videos now that I am on Youtube.
     
  28. harold bain

    harold bain Registered User
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    Yes, the levers (pretty much everything on the front plate) can become sluggish if the posts are not cleaned and the holes pegged out. These levers should run without oil and should be well cleaned during any repair.
     

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