Three train Jerome OG

Badgerus

Registered User
Feb 1, 2018
23
4
3
Country
Hello again. I bought this Jerome OG a couple of days ago. It's a 3 train with alarm and seems to be working ok. On the back of the dial is an inscription with a name and what appears to be the date1845(?) It certainly looks like 1845 to me anyway (picture included). I looked at Mike's excellent 'Jerome Collector' website and found this label dates from c.1851. Could this be a replacement dial from an earlier clock? Also, is it reasonable to assume that some Jerome dials in 1845 were zinc and not wood? I wonder if anyone could also give me their opinion as to whether the tablet and hands are right for this era of clock. Many thanks. 20180307_213527.png 20180307_195029.jpg 20180307_203219.jpg 20180307_213759.jpg 20180307_203204.jpg
 

Jeremy Woodoff

Registered User
NAWCC Member
Jun 30, 2002
4,138
58
48
Brooklyn
Country
Region
That's a wonderful tablet showing St. Paul's Chapel (still there), an earlier Trinity Church in the background, Barnum's Museum (burned) and City Hall Park in the foreground, still there with a reconstructed fence similar to the one in the tablet.
 

PatH

Registered User
NAWCC Fellow
NAWCC Member
Dec 5, 2014
1,913
1,359
113
Texas
Country
Region
That's a wonderful tablet showing St. Paul's Chapel (still there), an earlier Trinity Church in the background, Barnum's Museum (burned) and City Hall Park in the foreground, still there with a reconstructed fence similar to the one in the tablet.
Another nice clock, Badgerus, and as Jeremy said, it's also a wonderful tablet! Often, the writing at the bottom is missing or hidden. If I am reading correctly, it says "View in Broadway New York"

Congratulations,
Pat
 

Jerome collector

Registered User
NAWCC Fellow
NAWCC Member
Sep 4, 2005
853
77
28
Omaha, NE
Country
Region
Hello again. I bought this Jerome OG a couple of days ago. It's a 3 train with alarm and seems to be working ok. On the back of the dial is an inscription with a name and what appears to be the date1845(?) It certainly looks like 1845 to me anyway (picture included). I looked at Mike's excellent 'Jerome Collector' website and found this label dates from c.1851. Could this be a replacement dial from an earlier clock? Also, is it reasonable to assume that some Jerome dials in 1845 were zinc and not wood? I wonder if anyone could also give me their opinion as to whether the tablet and hands are right for this era of clock. Many thanks.
Nice Jerome with internal alarm. Thanks for the nice comment about my website, but remember what they say about the internet: "You can't always believe what you see on the internet." Dating Jerome clocks from 1845-1856 can be challenging. My dating of this particular label is based on the movements that are typically associated with it. Before going into the gory details, is there any chance you can post a photo of the movement with the alarm setting disk off? I'd like to be able to see the entire front of the movement.
Mike
 

Badgerus

Registered User
Feb 1, 2018
23
4
3
Country
Thanks for your replies. Mike, here's a couple of pictures of the front of the movement. Apologies for the lack of photography skills!

20180308_070102.jpg 20180308_070118.jpg
 

Rockin Ronnie

Registered User
NAWCC Member
Nov 18, 2012
1,601
125
63
Greenfield, Nova Scotia
antiquevintageclock.com
Country
Region
That's a wonderful tablet showing St. Paul's Chapel (still there), an earlier Trinity Church in the background, Barnum's Museum (burned) and City Hall Park in the foreground, still there with a reconstructed fence similar to the one in the tablet.
Interesting Barnum connection since Jerome bought the Bridgeport Clock Co.controlled by Barnum in 1855. Might help with the dating.

Ron
 

rmarkowitz1_cee4a1

Registered User
NAWCC Member
Nov 26, 2009
5,419
972
113
Country
Interesting Barnum connection since Jerome bought the Bridgeport Clock Co.controlled by Barnum in 1855. Might help with the dating.

Ron
Barnum's American Museum is was quite the attraction in its day:

dbbcac65025cf96091468b7c32d7580f.jpg

Though there is an unfortunate horological connection between Jerome and Barnum, I don't believe that it is why an image of Barnum's Museum on Broadway in lower Manhattan was chosen for the tablet. Any number of then important or popular places were chosen as images for tablets. The technique used was decalcomania which allowed for the mass production of this and many other images of places and structures.

RM
 

Jerome collector

Registered User
NAWCC Fellow
NAWCC Member
Sep 4, 2005
853
77
28
Omaha, NE
Country
Region
Thanks for your replies. Mike, here's a couple of pictures of the front of the movement. Apologies for the lack of photography skills!
Badgerus,

Sorry for the delay in getting back to you. Your movement is a type 1.311 with internal alarm. What's interesting about the label in your clock is that it's most commonly associated with two different movements: type 1.312 and type 1.314. The type 1.314 is believed by Snowden Taylor (and I agree with him based on my research) to have been made by the New Haven Clock Co. for Chauncey Jerome. New Haven was formed in 1851, which provides an approximate date for the label. Given the number of different labels used by Jerome in New Haven, it's doubtful a label run lasted more than six months or so. The type 1.312 movement was probably a product of Jerome, and it appears both movements were in production at the same time. I haven't updated my label table in some time, but I had not ever seen the label associated with a type 1.311 movement up to the last update. This movement is typically associated with earlier labels. I agree that the inscription on the back of the dial looks like 1845. That date would be consistent with the movement, which introduces the possibility that your dial and movement are from an earlier clock. With regards to your question about dial material in use in 1845, Jerome was using both wood and zinc dials at the time and continued using both into the 1850s.

The tablet looks absolutely right for the clock (especially if early 1850s). The hands I'm not so sure of. In particular, the minute hand does not look right.

Mike
 

Badgerus

Registered User
Feb 1, 2018
23
4
3
Country
Many thanks for your reply Mike and your well deduced conclusions on the originality of the movement and dial with the case. I'm pleased the movement and dial came from an earlier clock and not a later one. A really daft question here... were internal alarm mechanisms produced on the type 1.312 and 1.314 movements as well as on the 1.311? Also, were instructions ever printed on the labels for the operation of the alarm mechanism?
 

Jerome collector

Registered User
NAWCC Fellow
NAWCC Member
Sep 4, 2005
853
77
28
Omaha, NE
Country
Region
Many thanks for your reply Mike and your well deduced conclusions on the originality of the movement and dial with the case. I'm pleased the movement and dial came from an earlier clock and not a later one. A really daft question here... were internal alarm mechanisms produced on the type 1.312 and 1.314 movements as well as on the 1.311? Also, were instructions ever printed on the labels for the operation of the alarm mechanism?
All three could have had internal alarms. Later movements, like the type 1.411, for example, only came with an external alarm. I'm only aware of instructions being supplied with the 1.311 (and not by any means all of them), and those were overpasted on the label.
 

George Pins

Registered User
NAWCC Member
Jul 17, 2017
19
0
1
If I might jump in at this late date, those hands look identical to three Jeromes, Gilbert, Grant & Co. ogees I have, 1839-1840, so they could have come from existing inventory at the time. Hope this is helpful.
 
Our 2021 National Meeting in Hampton Roads Virginia
Topic related ad experiment
Know Your NAWCC Forums Rules!
RULES & GUIDELINES

Find member

Forum statistics

Threads
160,716
Messages
1,394,675
Members
82,814
Latest member
mugs
Encyclopedia Pages
1,099
Total wiki contributions
2,778
Last edit
Beat Setting 101 by Tom McIntyre