Thoughts/advice on a 9 Tube Elliott

bluelotus

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May 18, 2013
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Greetings from Philadelphia,
I have been away for some time but am finally getting back to projects that make me happy. Very excited to be focusing on clocks again!

I have been on the lookout for a JJ Elliott tall clock for several years. I recentky found one that intrigues me but there are a couple things about it that concern me; I would greatly appreciate those who’ve had experience with these clocks to give me your thoughts.

It is a JJ Elliott 9 tube Westminster/Whittington arrangement that has the Rosebery Street address with the H & H stamp for Harris and Harrington. The case corresponds exactly with case design 22 from a 1908 H & H catalogue pictured in Tran Duy Ly. Markings date it to 1901-1907. It has 9 dome top Harrington patent date marked tubes and is inscribed “Elliott London” on the dial. Please see the attached photos.

The main question/concern I have has to do with the chime hammer arrangement and the supports for the movement board. It appears to me that this movement should have the hour strike tube hanging in the left but it is hanging on the right here. The hammer mechanism for the hourly strike is at the left side of the movement but a cord is brought across and behind the movement to strike the tube on the right.

The gilded scrollwork, numerals, and chapter ring are in very nice original condition as is the moon dial. Finish is original with some scuffs and alligatoring and will benefit from a good cleaning and French polish. No major damage to case. It runs and chimes as it should but I was surprised to find that it is much less loud than my Bawo & Dotter 5 tube clock. Very sweet sound though!

Does this hammer arrangement seem odd or unusual given the fact that the tube rack appears not to correspond with the movement hammer arrangement? How would you explain the vertical supports of the seat board where there are clearly two countersunk holes on each side?

The clock showed up at Pook and Pook unsold over 10 years ago. The last picture was taken from LiveAuctioneers of the time it appeared at auction.

E5446477-59C4-458C-BFA0-EB8AA4988639.jpeg BAECB966-CCC4-434A-981D-FC2E493D777A.jpeg 4410620F-835C-41D6-BAD1-9C61BC11DECE.jpeg 32DF8671-D09B-407C-9285-8572C346CA9D.jpeg 1C8499FB-128E-4E78-A76C-AAAD98F1E679.jpeg A06A2EEC-83B6-4AF8-A2D5-0BA21A7F6296.jpeg C85E815C-95E4-4473-8D1D-7C2F00C17CCF.jpeg EAA5E536-F9F8-41D8-B908-38EC750CC8D2.jpeg
 
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bochisholm

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Jul 20, 2007
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Greetings from Philadelphia,
I have been away for some time but am finally getting back to projects that make me happy. Very excited to be focusing on clocks again!

I have been on the lookout for a JJ Elliott tall clock for several years. I recentky found one that intrigues me but there are a couple things about it that concern me; I would greatly appreciate those who’ve had experience with these clocks to give me your thoughts.

It is a JJ Elliott 9 tube Westminster/Whittington arrangement that has the Rosebery Street address with the H & H stamp for Harris and Harrington. The case corresponds exactly with case design 22 from a 1908 H & H catalogue pictured in Tran Duy Ly. Markings date it to 1901-1907. It has 9 dome top Harrington patent date marked tubes and is inscribed “Elliott London” on the dial. Please see the attached photos.

The main question/concern I have has to do with the chime hammer arrangement and the supports for the movement board. It appears to me that this movement should have the hour strike tube hanging in the left but it is hanging on the right here. The hammer mechanism for the hourly strike is at the left side of the movement but a cord is brought across and behind the movement to strike the tube on the right.

The gilded scrollwork, numerals, and chapter ring are in very nice original condition as is the moon dial. Finish is original with some scuffs and alligatoring and will benefit from a good cleaning and French polish. No major damage to case. It runs and chimes as it should but I was surprised to find that it is much less loud than my Bawo & Dotter 5 tube clock. Very sweet sound though!

Does this hammer arrangement seem odd or unusual given the fact that the tube rack appears not to correspond with the movement hammer arrangement? How would you explain the vertical supports of the seat board where there are clearly two countersunk holes on each side?

The clock showed up at Pook and Pook unsold over 10 years ago. The last picture was taken from LiveAuctioneers of the time it appeared at auction.

View attachment 710300 View attachment 710301 View attachment 710302 View attachment 710303 View attachment 710304 View attachment 710305 View attachment 710307 View attachment 710308
Thn the heavy weght should be on the rght sde.
 

bluelotus

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May 18, 2013
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As a follow up. . . I am sorry I wasn't more clear and direct, I just wanted to get all of the descriptive information out there. I clearly have not looked at a lot of these and don't have a good understanding of the variations one would expect to find.

Why would the hourly strike be brought from the left to the right when it appears that the Elliott 9 tube movements locate the hour strike on the left? Also, what would explain the apparent changes to the seat board supports?
 
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brian fisher

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Jan 20, 2017
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I don't know what to tell you about the seat board perches. the left side doesn't look too abnormal to me. the right side is another story. it could be a factory original. i have no explanation as i have never seen that design before either.

the hammer arrangement is not so crazy to me. i have seen a few others with this arrangement. i truly believe this is how it came from the factory. this is a very nice clock and i think you were lucky to find it. congratulations!

by the way....welcome back!
 
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svenedin

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Jan 28, 2010
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I have an 8 tube longcase by Smith and Sons (Clerkenwell). The hours are struck on a gong on my clock and there is a less sophisticated (earlier) type of hammer. Your clock looks fine to me.
 
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bluelotus

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May 18, 2013
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I don't know what to tell you about the seat board perches. the left side doesn't look too abnormal to me. the right side is another story. it could be a factory original. i have no explanation as i have never seen that design before either.

the hammer arrangement is not so crazy to me. i have seen a few others with this arrangement. i truly believe this is how it came from the factory. this is a very nice clock and i think you were lucky to find it. congratulations!

by the way....welcome back!
Hi Brian,
Yes, it’s nice to be back! Thanks for your response to my post. Justin also confirmed that the arrangement looked ok to him and didn’t seem too bothered by the alterations. I did a fair amount of auction sleuthing to find examples of intact supports of this kind and found that there was an adjustable bracket with a wooden pad that could be raised up and down to adjust the position of the movement. Perhaps this was used in cases where different kinds of movements could be accommodated?

I haven’t made a final decision yet but I have to say that the Harrington marked dome top tubes are sweeter, quieter, and more bell-like than the Elite tubes of my Bauerle 5 tube clock. If I get the clock I may replace the supports with a simple straight piece of wood,

More soon!
Gregory

Attached please find some examples of the kind of adjustable seatboard supports that were apparently originally installed on the clock I am looking at.

E9A468C1-B845-4145-A0DD-E86F5D834781.jpeg 165BB407-1E1C-4C19-A461-5FD8C3A0D623.jpeg 5BE327A7-D303-40A0-B37E-864AEEDBDE8C.jpeg E1ACD3BA-C6C7-4250-B653-167E1B482682.png 0395175F-D805-421E-B6D0-1B0939D7EFEE.jpeg
 
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