"Thomas Elliott" and "Thos Elliott, London" bracket clock

[thebatteryman]

I am researching a twin fusee movement striking a bell and dial has a silver chapter ring inscribed "Thomas Elliott" and an oval plaque inscribed "Thos Elliott, London." I will try to post a picture when I get up to speed (new NAWCC member). It looks very similar to the popular basket top mantel clock introduced by Joseph Knibb, circa 1675 (see at website http://finetiming.co.uk/dg_comitti-wc5.htm). When you hit this webpage, it looks SIMILAR to the clock on the right... not the same clock though or my question would be answered. All I'm trying to do is find out the approximate date of origin based on what I described above.

I checked the other postings about Elliotts and did not see help on this one.
I am trying to get the approximate date of origin for this clock... Help please

 

[thebatteryman]

I am researching a twin fusee movement striking a bell and dial has a silver chapter ring inscribed "Thomas Elliott" and an oval plaque inscribed "Thos Elliott, London." I will try to post a picture when I get up to speed (new NAWCC member). It looks very similar to the popular basket top mantel clock introduced by Joseph Knibb, circa 1675 (see at website http://finetiming.co.uk/dg_comitti-wc5.htm). When you hit this webpage, it looks SIMILAR to the clock on the right... not the same clock though or my question would be answered. All I'm trying to do is find out the approximate date of origin based on what I described above.

I checked the other postings about Elliotts and did not see help on this one.
I am trying to get the approximate date of origin for this clock... Help please

 

[Ralph]

I don't know what your clock looks like, but I think Comitti misnamed their case style. I think it is correctly called a dome top. A basket top is a different style.

Ralph

 

[Frank Menez]

See English Domestic Clocks by Cescinsky & Webster-- Basket Top-Page 251 No. 3 (Plain Wood Basket -Top)

 

[Ralph]

Hi Frank,

These days, I subscribe to Dawson, Drover & Parkes' description. In Early English Clocks, they call these dome tops.

Basket tops are pierced brass, sometimes double basket.

Cheers, Ralph

 

[Frank Menez]

There are known examples of Basket Top Bracket Clocks with plain wood and no brass or other metals. In addition to brass Silver was occasionally used. I have seen several plain wood basket tops in England. I would agree that the majority of English bracket clocks were fitted with elaborate brass lifting handles.

 

[Frank Menez]

The Collector's Dictionary of Clocks by H. Alan LLoyd Page 37-

Towards the end of the 17th Century the rectangular bracket clock case was surmounted by a flattened wooded dome, known as a basket top. Later, in order to achieve a greater degree of decoration, this was replaced by a metal top, usually of cast and chased brass of open work design.

 

[thebatteryman]

Originally posted by Frank Menez:
See English Domestic Clocks by Cescinsky & Webster-- Basket Top-Page 251 No. 3 (Plain Wood Basket -Top)

How do I locate this book so I can see this page?? Can someone email me a scan of this one page perhaps??
Thanks!!

 

[Ralph]

Hi Frank,

At the risk of belaboring this, I think Dawson, Drover & Parkes, tried to clarify or refine the descriptions of the spring clocks. If you check the English dealers for early bracket clocks, you will see they uniformly describe the pierced brass top clocks as basket and double basket, while the simpler tops, even with brass decoration are referred to as dome tops.

Dealers results

I notice that your description verbiage in the Lloyd book was actually under "double basket top". I concede the dictionary's and C&W overlap the descriptions....and even the DD&P book isn't 100% consistant, but mostly conforms.

The other Deryck Roberts, author of , The Bracket Clock, shows line drawings of the cases being discussed, labeling them as I contend they should be, but then in the text muddies it up.

I hereby serve notice, that if I describe an early bracket clock to you, I will be using basket or double basket to describe the pierced brass top and repousse top clocks. If I say dome clock, I'm referring to the simpler rendition.

I will check the Knibb Family book and see how many Knibb clocks Ron Lee describes as basket top.

Cheers, Ralph

 

[Ralph]

The Lee book, when referring to the tops on the Knibb clocks, calls them "caddy" tops.

Cheers, Ralph

 

[Frank Menez]

A Collectors Guide to Clocks by Derek Roberts Page 44

By 1675-80 the architectural style started to give way to the caddy top,sometimes left plain and sometimes decorated with fretted and gilt-brass mounts. By 1685-90 the fretted-out gilt-brass top was being employed.

This discussion of Bracket clock cases has been very interesting. It appears that various horologists use different terms to describe the cases of bracket clocks.

Frank

 

[Frank Menez]

Ralph

Found another description of a Basket Top

Clocks & Watches 1400-1900 by Eric Bruton

Page 54

Basket Top- The domed top made of the same wood as the case was accompanied by another version made in lavishly decorated open metalwork,know as the 'Basket Top', and also surmounted by a carring handle. Just before the beginning of the eighteenth century, a more elaborate variety with rounded sides, called a 'bell basket top',appeared. Much later,towards the last quarter of the 18th century, there was a third elaboration of the metalwork top, the double basket-in fact, a basket top on top of a bell basket top.

I know you are familiar with the above, how ever this might be of interest to others.

Frank