This note (Elgin MCs say a few were 14s) in Wayne's database is true

Discussion in 'American Pocket Watches' started by luvsthetick, Oct 11, 2019.

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  1. luvsthetick

    luvsthetick Registered User

    Mar 31, 2010
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    Interesting Elgin convertible grade 47 (show and tell)

    I started this thread 9/14 after making an interesting discovery. It was quite amazing how loose this movement was in a 16s case. Measuring the movement showed it was indeed a 14s.

    Thus I knew I needed to find a 14s case that was deep enough to accommodate an Elgin convertible movement. In my collection I have some early 14s Walthams, both hunter cased and open face cased. I decided to try my new Elgin movement in my Waltham cases. The Waltham cases fit the Elgin movement like a glove (minus a lever slot in the right location). I now knew what kind of case I needed. Last week a seller posted an empty 14s open face Waltham case with screw on bezel and screw on back. Once I cut a lever slot in the case my 14s Elgin convertible movement dropped into the Waltham case like it belonged. Here it is.

    DSC_0009a.jpg DSC_0004a.jpg DSC_0002a.jpg

    Elgin only had one run (1,000 numbers allocated) for their grade 47 convertible. It is a mixed run with both 7 jewel and 13 jewel movements. #602,423 is the 5th grade 47 in my collection and my 1st 14s Elgin. My collection consists of two 7 jewel and two 13 jewel watches.

    DSC_0012a.jpg DSC_0002a (2).jpg

    My 5th grade 47 convertible is the 7 jewel 14 size.

    These watches have been interesting to collect and examine. I have done a COA on all 5 and all are matching number movements. I would like to point out some interesting aspects about the watches I have. The 13 jewel versions I have seen and recorded are in the higher serial numbers. I thought all matching number movements through at least #602,544 would have pressed gear mainspring barrels, my new 14s movement proved that wrong. The most obvious difference between the 16s and the 14s movement is the proximity of the the top plate and barrel bridge screws to the edge of the movement, most noticeable on the barrel bridge. Here is a 16s 7 jewel and the 14s 7 jewel for comparison.

    DSC_0002ad.jpg DSC_0012ac.jpg

    Finding #602,423 raises questions. Why make a "few" 14s movements? How few is a few? Surely this is one scarce Elgin convertible. Did the few 14s movements all have 16s dials originally?

    As shown in my other thread, it was the 16s dial on the 14s movement as compared to the 16s dial on the 16s movement that caused me to measure the movement.
     
  2. ClockMogul

    ClockMogul Registered User

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    looking really nice now
     
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  3. musicguy

    musicguy Moderator
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    Great watches, great work finding a case and a good read!

    My guess on many low production movements is that they decided fairly
    quickly that these movements were not profitable or in demand at the time.


    Rob
     
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  4. Chris Radek

    Chris Radek Registered User
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    The numbers on that dial are really cool! I don't think I've seen that font before.
     
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  5. musicguy

    musicguy Moderator
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    I agree!


    Rob
     
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  6. Rick Hufnagel

    Rick Hufnagel Just Rick!
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    It's always great to see a rare or obscure piece go to the right collector! Good thinking on the case. I have a 14s Waltham at home and it's neat to see the size comparison with the 16s movements.

    Awesome, congrats!

    the grade 100, 18s convertibles seem to carry a dial like that. It's certainly not the most common dial style
     
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  7. diveboy

    diveboy Registered User
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    cause the 14s were made for the English market.

    what will really cook your noodle, the first nickel movement (Grade 46) is a 14s exported to the London office.
     
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  8. luvsthetick

    luvsthetick Registered User

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    Thanks Rick,

    Thought I might have to have a sleeve made (like a grade 100 has to fit a 18s case) to allow my movement to fit a 16s case. Waltham made cases fit very well except for the set lever position.
     
  9. luvsthetick

    luvsthetick Registered User

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    Thanks for that bit of information.

    Collecting is certainly a learning experience.
     
  10. luvsthetick

    luvsthetick Registered User

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    One of my grade 100 has the same style dial.

    DSC_0002a.jpg DSC_0006a.jpg
     
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  11. Chris Radek

    Chris Radek Registered User
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    The numbers aren't quite the same, but it's also lovely!
     
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