Thinking of buying a ST banjo clock

Discussion in 'General Clock Discussions' started by fbicknel, Apr 1, 2020.

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  1. fbicknel

    fbicknel Registered User

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    #1 fbicknel, Apr 1, 2020
    Last edited: Apr 1, 2020
    Trying to decipher some information about it.

    The clock has a date stamp in black letters of 8902 on the label. I have read elsewhere and here that date stamps were often backwards + a month code, but that's clearly not the case here. There is no letter for a month code.

    It says GERMANY at the bottom of the dial. I thought that was interesting: I didn't know ST was made in Germany at any time.

    Anyway... opinions welcomed.

    --- edit ---
    Heh. I put in a low-ball offer and they accepted it! So it's academic, but I'm still curious. When I get it, I'll post pictures in "new aquisitions". :)
     
  2. Steven Thornberry

    Steven Thornberry User Administrator
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    We would need to see the clock and movement. Sometime in the 1950's Seth Thomas began using German movements. The 8902 might mean Feb. 1989, but I'm not sure.
     
  3. fbicknel

    fbicknel Registered User

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    Pictures will follow in a week or so. I found it in antiqueauctionpriceguide.com (not a member) and it claims it's a Brookfield model.
     
  4. bruce linde

    bruce linde Technical Admin
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    are you sure it says 8902 and not 4902?
     
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  5. S_Owsley

    S_Owsley Registered User
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    I have a Brookfield made in the late '40's with the American made movement. I've also had one of the newer German ones. They are also nice. I think you will enjoy it. They are pretty clocks.
     
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  6. Willie X

    Willie X Registered User

    Feb 9, 2008
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    Pretty sure the S-T brand left the building in 1988. Willie X
     
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  7. Steven Thornberry

    Steven Thornberry User Administrator
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    The Brookfield was around for a number of years (over 20) and came as both key-wound and electric, but I don't think it lasted as late as 1989. I did find a sold Brookfield that had 6402 on the label (June 1964). Might that be the one you bought?
     
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  8. CameraGuy32

    CameraGuy32 Registered User

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    I serviced a Brookfield late last year that had a date of 50 03 stamped on the back. It had a ST signed movement, but I just can't remember what number was. Here are a few photos of the front. It had steel chime rods which have an odd metallic sound. I also have my personal one in my house stamped 69 06. nice sounding brass chime rods. They are beautiful clocks.
    Steve
    Banjo1.jpg Banjo2.jpg Banjo3.jpg
     
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  9. fbicknel

    fbicknel Registered User

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    Steve, that looks exactly like the one I bought except yours says "Made in USA" at the bottom of the dial; mine says GERMANY there. And except the steel chime rods come down center left from what we see. In the pictures, they appear at the right side and from the looks in the picture, they're brass. (Relieved sigh.) Thanks for the extra data point!

    So I'm guessing these stamps are YY MM, eh? That puts mine at Feb 1964, yours at Jun 1969, and the one you serviced at Mar 1950? Something like that? Someone cracked the sdrawkcab etad code and they decided to be more transparent. :)
     
  10. fbicknel

    fbicknel Registered User

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    Oh wow. Typo in my initial post: it says 64 02, not 82 02. Where'd I get THAT??
     
  11. fbicknel

    fbicknel Registered User

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    Yeah see my previous post about my brain pffft on my original post. That is indeed the one I bought.

    So ... why are you suggesting June instead of Feb? Or is YY MM not the correct interpretation? They dropped the backward year and went with YY + some month code?
     
  12. Steven Thornberry

    Steven Thornberry User Administrator
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    Because I am nothing if not a stumble brain, I wrote June instead of Feb.
     
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  13. fbicknel

    fbicknel Registered User

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    hehe... well, that makes two of us in this thread. :D
     
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  14. fbicknel

    fbicknel Registered User

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    Oh, no, Billy, dem is trucks.
     
  15. Steven Thornberry

    Steven Thornberry User Administrator
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    Correct. It’s modern Latin, and creatively used. However, some would have it that it isn’t Latin at all, but that is tomfoolery.
     
  16. fbicknel

    fbicknel Registered User

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    99.99% sure it's the latter. Oh, see Billy, see 'ere go forty busses in a row. Oh no, Billy, dem is trucks. Vat is in 'em? Eggs n' ducks.

    Here's another variation I found online:

    Osibili si ergo,
    Fortibuses in ero.
    Nobili, demis trux:
    Sewatis enim? Cowsendux!​

    Google translate doesn't do anything interesting with this, either:

    If the Osibili;
    Fortibuses for instance.
    Noble, evoking the stern;
    Sewatis for? Cowsendux!​

    Clocks! Clocks! We're here to talk about clocks! :D
     
  17. fbicknel

    fbicknel Registered User

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    It arrived, but unfortunately not in the best of condition. They neglected to take the movement out of the case, so it was banging around inside the housing holding on desperately by a single screw. The other three screws were rattling around inside the case. The back is held on by nails (looks original), and several of those had backed out some due to the shock of being thrown around and the weight of the chime bar anchor acting as a hammer from inside the case. Fortunately not too much damage has been done: just the dial dented a bit from the hands banging against it saving the movement from bashing against the back of the case.

    *sigh*

    Well, the movement needs cleaning anyway. It does look like it's probably in good shape, though.

    20200407_200422.jpg 20200407_201610.jpg
     
  18. claussclocks

    claussclocks Registered User
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    I have had two of this clock. One had a movement made in the U.S. and the later one had a German movement. As Seth Thomas wound down they stopped producing any American made movements. I would bet yours has a Hermle movement.

    DPC
     
  19. fbicknel

    fbicknel Registered User

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    Yep, I believe it does:

    20200408_160511.jpg 20200408_160521.jpg 20200408_160530.jpg 20200408_160429.jpg
     
  20. Steven Thornberry

    Steven Thornberry User Administrator
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    It does seem to be a Hermle movement. I think the "6313" indicates the movement was made in December 1963 but not put in use/sold until January 1964 (hence the "13"), which comports well with the Feb. 1964 date on the clock label.
     
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  21. fbicknel

    fbicknel Registered User

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    cool. Thanks!
     
  22. fbicknel

    fbicknel Registered User

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    Today is restoration day for this clock. I decided to start with cleaning the dial.

    After reading about dial cleaning, I settled on some water-based hand cleaner. Goop multi-purpose hand cleaner; Contents: Isoparafins, Water, Oleic Acid, Surfactants, Triethanolamine, Glycerine, Fragrance, BHT. Seemed safe enough.

    The main issue on this dial was the damage done during shipping. Hung by its hands, the movement slammed around in there after being pulled loose from its moorings. The dial saved the movement from damage, but sacrificed a bit of "straightness" in the process.
    20200410_124553.jpg 20200410_124605.jpg 20200410_123410.jpg

    While inspecting, I spied two moderately good repair jobs on the dial from the past: the tail of the nine and the top of the eight.

    So I started with an inconspicuous spot on the silvered part. No issues. Expanded to a larger portion, still no paint. No issues.

    Tried it out on the 9. It was repaired anyway, so why not. Well, here's why not:

    20200410_123953.jpg

    I'm ok with this personally: my clock and I may have the dial restored anyway. But here's a warning for everyone out there: hand cleaner definitely dissolves some paints! :)

    BTW, water did not bother the paint.

    And as you see, the paint used on the repair job didn't mind the Goop, either.

    After all that effort, the dial does look a little cleaner, but it didn't budge most of the marks on the dial (well, except the aforementioned nine.) Pretty sure most of them are wear from mishandling over the years. Fortunately, they're not terribly conspicuous.

    As for the dent in the middle, I turned the dial face down on a soft cloth and pressed rather gently in the middle with the butt end of a wooden screwdriver handle. I was able to press most of the dent out without issue. Careful: the metal moves easily and I'm sure a little too much pressure and it would be poking out instead of in.
    20200410_124859.jpg 20200410_130530.jpg
     
  23. fbicknel

    fbicknel Registered User

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    Some case work is necessary. Those glue blocks at the bottom were all loose.

    Hide glue is heating. :)
    20200410_135914.jpg 20200410_141509.jpg 20200410_144710.jpg 20200410_144734.jpg
     
  24. fbicknel

    fbicknel Registered User

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    #24 fbicknel, Apr 10, 2020
    Last edited: Apr 10, 2020
    Well, I guess it's mine, now:
    20200410_161502.jpg

    20200410_161230.jpg

    The cam on the center shaft was quite the troublemaker. It looks like I'm playing Jenga here:

    20200410_153918.jpg 20200410_153925.jpg 20200410_153928.jpg 20200410_154133.jpg 20200410_154649.jpg 20200410_154904.jpg

    I finally got tired of playing Jenga (and it was getting looser, so only one pry bar was needed).
    20200410_155244.jpg 20200410_155355.jpg 20200410_155447.jpg 20200410_155451.jpg
    The hand nut is on the center shaft upside down as I was going to use my puller for the last bit. Alas, the foot is too narrow and the center shaft wouldn't fit. I decided it would be a good idea to leave it on, as any minute now it was going to free suddenly and the cam would fly up and hit the ceiling. That never happened. Not until I took the nut off because I couldn't go any farther. Of course it popped up then. Didn't hit the ceiling.

    Note the blue tape on the back of the pry bars. This keeps the first pry operation (not shown) from marring the brass. It also keeps the pry bars from slipping out from under the leverage operation, thus keeping the fulcrum steady.

    The pry bars were home built from two old Craftsman screwdrivers. A torch, an anvil, and hammer were employed. And some oil for quenching. I've used them on three clocks so far... well worth the modification.
     
  25. jmclaugh

    jmclaugh Registered User

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    I didn't know banjo clocks were made that late. Just a though if it says Germany on the dial wouldn't that suggest before the start of WWII or after the fall of the Berlin Wall.
     

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