The Liverpool Runner.

Allan C. Purcell

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Your very welcome Keith, I also sent information on two JJ Runners to Oliver. I am waiting for a reply, they too could be earlly. Best, Allan.
 

Allan C. Purcell

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The two watches below confirm the early date of 1824/25. Though they are made in London. ( Used the Massey escapement) From T. C. Cuss "The English Watch".

IMG_4601.JPG IMG_4602.JPG IMG_4603.JPG IMG_4604.JPG IMG_4605.JPG
 

John Matthews

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Allan - some of us would not call these Liverpool Runners because in both cases the lever is not next to the fusee and the train is not reversed. However, if as I said previously

Might it be, that what you are trying to establish, irrespective of the label 'Liverpool Windows', is the earliest example of an Liverpool ébauche with the mainspring tension setting prawl exposed on the top plate?
then if you look at Plate 224 in Camerer Cuss there is a Robert Pennington duplex hallmarked 1811/12. and there are probably earlier examples.

John
 

Allan C. Purcell

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John- Above we mentioned the style could have come from the pocket chronometer, and some makers thought the Duplex could be as good has the detent chronometer when in the the pocket.( Robert Pennington was a chronemeter maker of repute) Those I show above show the style of watch we are taking about, we all know they are not made in Liverpool-so they cannot be called Liverpool Runners, they just confirm the date and style on a lever watch. I don´t know anyone who would call London made watches Liverpool Runners Allan.
 

PapaLouies

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I thought this Thread was about Liverpool Runners , so what is Post #52 doing on here?
PL
 

Allan C. Purcell

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Easy guys, I enjoy seeing these beauties!

Keith R...
Hi Keith, and PL. After Dinner they should always be a sweet. Robert Roskell also made Liverpool Runners, and the one below is a fine example, the only problem, it is re-cased in a pair case. The No.34492 . On the Roskell file the next watch 34652 is in a hall-marked case for Chester 1824/25. No. 34492 could then be the same date or one year earlier. It has a Massey III escapement. Please note the ruby end stone. Best Allan.


IMG_4609.JPG IMG_4610.JPG
 

Keith R...

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Thanks Allan. Nice ruby end stone. Also the styling on this watch, along with the balance wheel are interesting
regarding 1824/25. I even view London levers for the period. They all tended to lean in certain directions on
style during the mid 1820's. Thanks for sharing Allan.

Keith R...
 

Keith R...

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Allan, I'll have to do some digging to find the info from "Early table rollers" and do some
studying.

I think London had some good makers in the day. Sorry in advance PL, a non Liverpool..

Morris Tobias, kin to the Liverpool crowd though.

Keith R...

morris3 (800x800).jpg morris (717x800).jpg morris2 (774x800) (774x800).jpg
 

Keith R...

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Like Ray, I'm always on the hunt to case "ole Morris #2003".

Keith R...

PS...Not a Swiss dial.

100_1236 (800x600).jpg
 

Keith R...

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That was always interesting, but never supported. I'm not sure how
you make an R out of an F. Note, same HM and case maker on inner
case #7771. PL, if you would like to re litigate this watch, why not open
up the Josh Johnson thread and we'll go for round two.

This is Allan's Liverpool thread.

Keith R...

103_9856 (800x600).jpg
 
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Tom McIntyre

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On the old message board people were encouraged to not upload pictures that were "too large."

Since most cameras take pictures that are at least 2000 x 3000 pixels, I would recommend that you use a square format for most watch pictures and upload them at full resolution. The software will down size them a bit if necessary, but it will keep a rather large image on file.

When you click on a thumbnail to show it in the light box, you can click again to show it in its own tab or window at a larger size. In many cases, you can click it again and scroll bars will be displayed along with the full size image that you uploaded (which might have been reduced a bit to meet our size limits (that change as our capacity improves)).
 

PapaLouies

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That was always interesting, but never supported. I'm not sure how
you make an R out of an F. Note, same HM and case maker on inner
case #7771. PL, if you would like to re litigate this watch, why not open
up the Josh Johnson thread and we'll go for round two.

This is Allan's Liverpool thread.

Keith R...

View attachment 465007

Well Keith,

It was you that turned the F into an R, in your Post #62 Nov. 12, 2015 on the Josh Johnson thread.
Unfortunately, you allowed this error to persist for several months until on Mar. 5, 2016 you put on this very readable photo of the hallmarks in the outer case #6370 in your Post #266 on the Josh Johnson thread. And further, to add insult to injury you have included in this Post the same photo from your Josh Johnson Post #266 which, clearly shows the date letter F. And that by implication was available to me Nov. 15, 2015 when I put on my Post #65 at the Josh Johnson thread.

In case you have not noticed this is " The Liverpool Runner " thread, not the " Allan Liverpool Runner " thread.

Now as long as you continue to put on New Threads, at every opportunity, the watch you refer to as #7771, I will comment on it's shortcomings.
This watch is replete with contradictions regarding it's serial numbers and hallmarks to the extent it can not be relied upon to establish your insistent date of 1824.
However, I would say it's not inappropriate to put #7771 on this thread, because it is, after all, a " Liverpool Runner ". And surprisingly Allan's John Harrison suffers one of the same flaws as your #7771. That is the case and movement numbers do not match.

PL
 

Allan C. Purcell

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And surprisingly Allan's John Harrison suffers one of the same flaws as your #7771. That is the case and movement numbers do not match.
The number on my Harrison watch is 5863. On front and back covers there is between the hallmarks 72. (Likely springers number rather than initials, and no space for more numbers.) On the rear cover there is an 8 two little squares and what looks like half a question mark. Mistakes made by the case maker is more likely. This mistake is not repeated. It matters little, we now know watches called Liverpool Runners were made long before my Harrison. Best Allan.

IMG_4642 (1).JPG
 

Keith R...

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For PL on #7771. If you need glasses I can't help there PL. Rotate the small
photo 180 degrees and it's right side up.

Note, the middle row top to bottom from case maker down to HM are right
side up on first photo. The assay, movement number & King are inverted by the
original case maker in first photo.

Keith R...

7771HM (180x200).jpg 103_2878 (768x1024).jpg
 
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Keith R...

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Liverpool thread right....................So if anybody ever ask the rail road question, here's
an answer for above ground date on the rails.

Keith R...

4xxx1 (705x465).jpg
 

Tom McIntyre

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That appears to be a celebration of a new generating station. I would have thought the overhead lines would have been running before that time and the rails themselves much earlier than that.
 

Allan C. Purcell

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hat appears to be a celebration of a new generating station. I would have thought the overhead lines would have been running before that time and the rails themselves much earlier than that.
For once we got an idea from the American´s. Opened in 1852.First electric railway.
See Wikipedia.Best Allan.

PS you owe me a letter.
 

Keith R...

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See, we learn something new every day. Thanks Tom & Allan.

PS....PL, life is to short to spend one's time arguing. So I'm moving
on from discussions on Liverpool runner #7771. My late wife worried
about everything.

Keith R...
 
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