The fallacy of some NAWCC Chapter rules

Discussion in 'Member News and Views' started by dweiss17, Mar 9, 2013.

  1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.
  1. dweiss17

    dweiss17 Registered User
    Old Timer NAWCC Member

    Aug 1, 2006
    2,461
    40
    48
    Retired from Graphic Arts
    Philadelphia, PA
    Country Flag:
    #1 dweiss17, Mar 9, 2013
    Last edited: Mar 9, 2013
    Belonging to Chapter #1 (Philadelphia) you are permitted to bring a guest twice and then no longer...unless they join the NAWCC Association. The last two times I attended meetings, I had my niece carry my watch case...simply, because I could break my neck stumbling as I try to walk, with a cane in one hand and the watch case in my other.

    One could say as you reach the meeting destination, call one of the members to help you with your watch case...that would be not me, asking other members to help me.

    As the oldest member of Chapter 1, with two knees that wear braces, I also may be the oldest NAWCC member still alive with a Chapter membership. Checking with Headquarters sometime ago, one member at age 99, no longer had a Chapter affiliation and I do not know if he still belongs to the NAWCC membership. Or, that he may have passed away. Anyway, I intend to attend the Chapter 1 meeting at Fort Washington on April 7[SUP]th[/SUP]. I still have to resolve the problem of carrying the case to the meeting.

    The Luncheon speaker at the meeting will talk about E. Howard watches and I have one of the quite (scarce/rare?) Coles Escapements that does run and keeps excellent time. Supposedly? Less than 42 “N” size Coles are known to exist...how many of them actually run and keep time has never been determined. I think, few.

    These Howard timepieces using the Coles Escapement (pallets banking on the special escape wheel) were another of the Howard experiments that failed. Most, converted back to regular escapements. The problem was/is watch repair people did not know how to set the pallets properly so they would bank on the flat side of the escape wheel without stopping. The few that went back to the factory had banking pins added to the movement...even that did not solve the banking problem. My Howard #24267, while original, is fitted into a Coin case with the banking pins added...however, they are not used to keep the watch running.

    Getting back to my 48 years of membership in Chapter #1, and possibly being the oldest member alive in this NAWCC. I find it far from pertinent that that a non-member is not allowed to help me attend an organization that has benefited to a great extent from my largess and devotion to the National Association of Watch and Clock Collectors. To prove that point...just read the more than 200,000 postings in close to 110 threads on the Member News and Views on the NAWCC Message Board.

    This Forum is part of “the dreamer in me lives on.” One many of the ideas coming from me and that are part of the NAWCC existence. I have no desire to pin any roses on myself...much of what I dreamt of has come to fruition. My 48 years in the NAWCC and going into my 98[SUP]th[/SUP] year of life and being active in this organization since 1964...provides the incentive to do even more.
     
  2. Adam Harris

    Adam Harris Registered User
    Moore NWCM Award

    May 3, 2012
    3,195
    77
    48
    Male
    Jubilado (retired)
    Costa Blanca - Spain
    Country Flag:
    What can one say , but 'Pathetic' that these rules are used AGAINST the people that they were NEVER meant for

    Good For You
    A
     
  3. David S

    David S Registered User
    NAWCC Member

    Dec 18, 2011
    7,144
    220
    63
    Male
    Professional Engineer - Retired
    Brockville, On Canada
    Country Flag:
    Region Flag:
    Dan I get your point. I would think that if you have an assistant.. your niece.. then she should be admitted for free. My god what is this world coming to? Some times rules become so cast in stone that there is no wiggle room for compassion and special circumstances. I would hope that after posting this, there would be a change in rules for those needing assistance to attend these meetings, not withstanding you long term support and contribution to the NAWCC.
     
  4. FDelGreco

    FDelGreco Registered User
    NAWCC Star Fellow NAWCC Member Sponsor

    Aug 28, 2000
    1,877
    51
    48
    Male
    Retired chemical engineer
    Novelty, OH
    Country Flag:
    Region Flag:
    Dan:

    Has your niece actually been denyed entry? It doesn't sound like you've actually tried a third time. As a family member -- though somewhat distant -- she would probably be allowed in. Just explain the circumstances to the registration people.

    Frank
     
  5. Richard T.

    Richard T. Deceased
    Deceased

    Apr 7, 2005
    5,064
    2
    0
    Country Flag:
    Region Flag:
    I would have no desire to belong to a chapter whose rules were that restrictive and that wouldn't accommodate those needing assistance. Have you no friends in this chapter that would gladly assist you? If you do and choose not to ask for assistance, then you have no complaint.

    You keep posting that you may be the oldest member etc......Have you checked to verify your claims?

    Our chapter has a member that will be 97 before long. I imagine there are other nonagenarians that you aren't aware of.
     
  6. Dick C

    Dick C Registered User

    Oct 14, 2009
    1,544
    41
    48
    Male
    Country Flag:
    If you read his first post you would have seen that he is going into his 98th year.
     
  7. harold bain

    harold bain Registered User
    NAWCC Member Deceased

    Nov 4, 2002
    40,850
    141
    63
    Male
    deceased
    Whitby, Ontario, Canada
    Country Flag:
    Region Flag:
    You know, Dan, the solution seems rather obvious. For someone who has purchased NAWCC membership for his cat, I shouldn't really have to tell you:whistle:.
     
  8. Richard T.

    Richard T. Deceased
    Deceased

    Apr 7, 2005
    5,064
    2
    0
    Country Flag:
    Region Flag:
    Yes I read his post and know that he is 97 years old. It has been posted quite often.

    My point is that 97 may not be the oldest member with a chapter affiliation.
     
  9. dweiss17

    dweiss17 Registered User
    Old Timer NAWCC Member

    Aug 1, 2006
    2,461
    40
    48
    Retired from Graphic Arts
    Philadelphia, PA
    Country Flag:
    Gentlemen:

    Just a while ago, I emailed my posting regarding the [fallacy] to the Chapter 1 leaders (4) in total. So we will see what happens.

    To answer some of the postings after mine...Frank, after all these years, I would not lower myself in asking permission of our Chapter 1 leaders to permit my niece free entry to our meetings. Harold, it's not the money to pay for her joining, Frankie Weiss was memorialized as the only non-human to ever hold membership through a mistake. Harold, could you name one person who has donated possibly one-hundred fold the price of joining the NAWCC? I can.

    Another thought, yes, Harold I checked as to the oldest person with a Chapter affiliation.

    Gentlemen...this little problem will be taken care of in a manner that will result in concordance and no feelings of discord.
     
  10. FDelGreco

    FDelGreco Registered User
    NAWCC Star Fellow NAWCC Member Sponsor

    Aug 28, 2000
    1,877
    51
    48
    Male
    Retired chemical engineer
    Novelty, OH
    Country Flag:
    Region Flag:
    Dan:

    I didn't say to let her in for free. She could pay the regular admission charge, just like any other member. Asking is not lowering yourself. It's common courtesy.

    In answer to your second, question, I can name LOTS of members who have donated one-hundred fold the price of joining - I being one. In fact, I can name a member who donated more than 8,000 times the price of a membership.

    Frank

    P.S. You would memorialize a cat, but not your niece? What has this world come to?
     
  11. dweiss17

    dweiss17 Registered User
    Old Timer NAWCC Member

    Aug 1, 2006
    2,461
    40
    48
    Retired from Graphic Arts
    Philadelphia, PA
    Country Flag:
    Frank:

    As much as I respect you and have the intention of always being close to you. Its not the money...it's the Chapter rules that bother me...sometimes rules should to be changed to fit the occasion. And, need to be brought to the attention of those that rule at the present time.

    Did I read correctly 245 hits in about 3 hours? Is the hit counter going bonkers?

    Dan
     
  12. Richard T.

    Richard T. Deceased
    Deceased

    Apr 7, 2005
    5,064
    2
    0
    Country Flag:
    Region Flag:
    It seems that you should have asked the CH 1 leadership before posting here. It might have been resolved if you had asked.
    looks like you waited a couple of hours after posting to contact them.

    I have never understood your "fascination" with the number of hits. Some of them are from the same people.
     
  13. dweiss17

    dweiss17 Registered User
    Old Timer NAWCC Member

    Aug 1, 2006
    2,461
    40
    48
    Retired from Graphic Arts
    Philadelphia, PA
    Country Flag:
    Richard:

    The number of hits will reveal the interest in the post you have posted. Looks like I did some good by bringing attention to the fact that some of the autonomous (not NAWCC rules) Chapter rulings might need a little revision. I am sure it did more good than harm to posting my thoughts on the NAWCC Message Board for all to see. I have no need to think I did wrong in bringing attention to the fact that I need help to attend a meeting.

    As for the 'same people making hits' it is beyond my comprehension. 2-3 hits in answer I can understand, hundreds, you tell me?
     
  14. harold bain

    harold bain Registered User
    NAWCC Member Deceased

    Nov 4, 2002
    40,850
    141
    63
    Male
    deceased
    Whitby, Ontario, Canada
    Country Flag:
    Region Flag:
    Dan, every time there is a new post, I open the thread (a hit). So if, say 20 people are following the thread, and we are up to 13 posts, that could add up to 260 hits.
     
  15. FDelGreco

    FDelGreco Registered User
    NAWCC Star Fellow NAWCC Member Sponsor

    Aug 28, 2000
    1,877
    51
    48
    Male
    Retired chemical engineer
    Novelty, OH
    Country Flag:
    Region Flag:
    Dan:

    Before you complain too much about Chapter 1, you should know that it is an NAWCC rule, not a chapter rule, that limits the number of visits for nonmembers.

    Article XIII, Section 5.b.(3) of the standing rules states:

    "Limitation on Visits
    All Guests (non-members) whether Friends and Family or the general public, may attend no more than three (3) chapter meetings without joining NAWCC. Chapters may set a lower number of visits if desired."

    I really wish members would read the standing rules. It would end a lot of complaints, misconceptions, and finger pointing.

    Again, speak with chapter 1. There are lots of chapters where a nonmember friend or guardian pushes members around in a wheelchair at a meeting.

    Frank
     
  16. Frank Menez

    Frank Menez Registered User
    Deceased

    Jul 11, 2003
    1,302
    4
    0
    USAF Retired
    Somersworth NH
    Country Flag:
    Region Flag:
    Do I detect a lack of respect for one of our oldest and active members? The response to Dans concerns should be--We will look into this matter and see if there is a better way to deal with this issue. If I am way off base with this post let me know
    in a respectfull manner. Frank Menez NAWCC 15520 USAF Retired
     
  17. David S

    David S Registered User
    NAWCC Member

    Dec 18, 2011
    7,144
    220
    63
    Male
    Professional Engineer - Retired
    Brockville, On Canada
    Country Flag:
    Region Flag:
    I trust that the larger type face isn't shouting :). I can understand the rules in general. People that have an interest in horology and attend the meetings should have a limit. However if a person is attending primarily as an guardian / assistant to the member, I think there should be an exception. I also agree that a call to the chapter ahead of time and explaining the situation would be most appropriate.
     
  18. FDelGreco

    FDelGreco Registered User
    NAWCC Star Fellow NAWCC Member Sponsor

    Aug 28, 2000
    1,877
    51
    48
    Male
    Retired chemical engineer
    Novelty, OH
    Country Flag:
    Region Flag:
    No, I wasn't shouting. The standing rules is in an online PDF. To copy and paste on this MB requires saving it on my PC, then copying and pasting it from there. The result was a very tiny font. I tried to change it using the advanced area, but the font size choices were "2" (too small) and "3" (too large). What's a guy to do?

    Next time I'll use "2" and you'll squint -- and you'll ask me why I'm whispering! ;)

    Frank
     
  19. dweiss17

    dweiss17 Registered User
    Old Timer NAWCC Member

    Aug 1, 2006
    2,461
    40
    48
    Retired from Graphic Arts
    Philadelphia, PA
    Country Flag:
    To all who responded to this thread...THANK YOU...please do not lose your cool about big type, shouting, read the rules or whatever.

    Positively, I did no wrong in posting what I did to and involving you gentlemen in a matter dear to me...attending Chapter 1 meetings. Some of you cheered me on, one or two gentlemen took me to task and stated your thoughts. None of what was posted here solved this problem. That will be done speaking or emailing to the Chapter 1 officers.

    Again, I thank each of you for your input...it made for a lively discussion about "as Frank says" rules set down by the powers that be...the upper echelon of the National Association of What and Clock Collectors. Our leaders.

    In reading these postings, someone mentioned a wheelchair. Thankfully, I am not in that category of need.

    Finally, if need be...I shall ask my neighbor to take my my watch case and put it in my car trunk, I drive without any problems, when reaching the meeting place...a cell call to the proper person and he will get my watch case and put it on my table.

    We must try to understand there could and may be exceptions to rules set down by our leaders. I am certain I'll be at the next meeting of Chapter 1 on April 7, 2013.
     
  20. harold bain

    harold bain Registered User
    NAWCC Member Deceased

    Nov 4, 2002
    40,850
    141
    63
    Male
    deceased
    Whitby, Ontario, Canada
    Country Flag:
    Region Flag:
    Dan, you could ask one of our board of directors to propose an exemption to the rule, allowing assistants to handicapped members admittance to chapter events without the necessity of membership.
    I'm sure the chapter officers can use their discretion in enforcing this rule until an exemption is made official.
     
  21. FDelGreco

    FDelGreco Registered User
    NAWCC Star Fellow NAWCC Member Sponsor

    Aug 28, 2000
    1,877
    51
    48
    Male
    Retired chemical engineer
    Novelty, OH
    Country Flag:
    Region Flag:
    Harold:

    That's a great idea. Since I'm on the Bylaws & Procedures committee, I'll draft something and get a board member to propose it.

    Frank
     
  22. David S

    David S Registered User
    NAWCC Member

    Dec 18, 2011
    7,144
    220
    63
    Male
    Professional Engineer - Retired
    Brockville, On Canada
    Country Flag:
    Region Flag:
    That is what I was hoping. Always good to have rules, but periodically they can be reviewed and updated where neccessary.
     
  23. harold bain

    harold bain Registered User
    NAWCC Member Deceased

    Nov 4, 2002
    40,850
    141
    63
    Male
    deceased
    Whitby, Ontario, Canada
    Country Flag:
    Region Flag:
    Hopefully common sense would prevail at the door, but I recall at a regional I attended, one of our younger members arrived with his father, who is not a member, and was needed for transportation. The father was denied entry unless he paid, so ended up having to sit outside waiting for his son.
     
  24. FDelGreco

    FDelGreco Registered User
    NAWCC Star Fellow NAWCC Member Sponsor

    Aug 28, 2000
    1,877
    51
    48
    Male
    Retired chemical engineer
    Novelty, OH
    Country Flag:
    Region Flag:
    At the 2006 national convention, a man arrived at the registration desk in a wheelchair being pushed by his wife. Registration was $60, which he paid for, but in order for his wife to get in to push him -- she had no interest in horology -- she would have had to pay an additional $60. She was outraged and was going to take him back home. I was board chair at the time and at the desk. I told the registration folks to waive her registration fee. He was a happy member and she became more tolerant of his hobby. Win-Win.

    Frank
     
  25. dweiss17

    dweiss17 Registered User
    Old Timer NAWCC Member

    Aug 1, 2006
    2,461
    40
    48
    Retired from Graphic Arts
    Philadelphia, PA
    Country Flag:
    Top of Form

    [FONT=&amp]Frank:

    Thank you for what you intend to do. I am sure others will appreciate your efforts, as do I.

    Let's go back to a little history...in 1964, I had to have a sponsor to join the NAWCC. I am not sure if we had the ruling permitting a person to attend our meetings without joining first. Now we have the ruling allowing a person to attend Chapter meetings twice before they had to join the NAWCC. We also have another new ruling allowing free entry on a Saturday of a Regional; I do not know if that also applies to our National Conventions. [/FONT]And, I do not remember from earlier times, if we were permitted to bring a guest to our meetings.[FONT=&amp]
    [/FONT]
    [FONT=&amp]When non-members were first allowed to access our NAWCC Message Board and post their thoughts?

    Another new ruling allowing advertising on our NAWCC Message Board. There may be other rulings not familiar to me.

    So you see the National Association of Watch and Clock Collectors realize the By-Laws and other rules may be forced to change from time to time as dictated by the passage of time and new understanding as to what makes us as an ever-evolving organization...that will tick in a manner that will benefit all.[/FONT]
     
  26. Tim Orr

    Tim Orr National Membership Chair
    Director NAWCC Fellow NAWCC Member

    Sep 27, 2008
    979
    79
    28
    Male
    95% retired from the ad business.
    Boulder CO
    Country Flag:
    Region Flag:
    Good evening, Dan!

    I do hope someone at your chapter has the sense to waive the rule. I can understand your desire that the rule be changed, however, and appreciate that that is something quite different from waiving a rule. Rather like the difference between being found "Not Guilty" and being given a pardon. The net is the same, but not the gross, if you will.

    As a member of the Convention committee, I can tell you that in the new Regional Meeting Handbook, we have specifically recommended that every regional admit those in service to those with handicaps at no charge, provided they understand that they are to accompany the handicapped individual at all times and that they themselves are not to engage, on their own behalf, in "exchanging" items.

    For what it's worth, my personal opinion is that chapters ought to make their own rules, and that NAWCC ought not to attempt to micromanage chapter activities.

    Best regards!

    Tim Orr
     
  27. dweiss17

    dweiss17 Registered User
    Old Timer NAWCC Member

    Aug 1, 2006
    2,461
    40
    48
    Retired from Graphic Arts
    Philadelphia, PA
    Country Flag:
    Tim:

    Now you know why I voted for you!

    Dan
     
  28. Tim Orr

    Tim Orr National Membership Chair
    Director NAWCC Fellow NAWCC Member

    Sep 27, 2008
    979
    79
    28
    Male
    95% retired from the ad business.
    Boulder CO
    Country Flag:
    Region Flag:
    Thank you, Dan! If elected, I will do my best to make you glad you voted the way you did.

    Best regards!

    Tim
     

Share This Page