The double roller?

Allan C. Purcell

NAWCC Member
Feb 9, 2013
3,554
1,703
113
Germany
Country
Region
I have seen a Deuber Watch Company cion silver cased watch, with nickel plates. On the barrel bridge, is engraved the words Double Roller. I take it that's the escapement. I had not seen this before. Could anyone tell me when they first used the double roller lever escapement on American watches? You will know the very first lever watch by Thomas Mudge had a double roller escapement.

Allan
 
  • Like
Reactions: grtnev

Allan C. Purcell

NAWCC Member
Feb 9, 2013
3,554
1,703
113
Germany
Country
Region
Thank you, Jerry, it's a start. Though Glasgow wrote plenty on the double roller in his book, on pages 184 to 186, he gives no date. though he does say.

" The Swiss make double roller escapements to all their high-class watches, and indeed to a great many that cannot be included in that category that would be a good deal better with something less pretentious"

Written in 1885.

So at the moment, I would say we are at least 1880. Roskell used one in 1820, but that was a one-off, no others have been found, I am looking for the date between 1820 to 1880. A strange story this, all the pioneers of the lever escapement all used some type of double roller, up to Grant, then a gap till 1820. In between these dates we had the Savage two pin, the Massey, and a little before Peter Litherlands Rack Lever. Yet it was the double roller that was to rule the escapement story. Of course between these lever escapements, we had the Cylinder & the Duplex. So what happened, who was to re-introduce the Double-Roller?

Allan
 

DeweyC

NAWCC Member
Feb 5, 2007
2,777
1,409
113
Baltimore
www.historictimekeepers.com
Country
I have seen a Deuber Watch Company cion silver cased watch, with nickel plates. On the barrel bridge, is engraved the words Double Roller. I take it that's the escapement. I had not seen this before. Could anyone tell me when they first used the double roller lever escapement on American watches? You will know the very first lever watch by Thomas Mudge had a double roller escapement.

Allan
This is a good (if arcane to some) question. Hamilton did not use double rollers until around 1901
Thank you, Jerry, it's a start. Though Glasgow wrote plenty on the double roller in his book, on pages 184 to 186, he gives no date. though he does say.

" The Swiss make double roller escapements to all their high-class watches, and indeed to a great many that cannot be included in that category that would be a good deal better with something less pretentious"

Written in 1885.

So at the moment, I would say we are at least 1880. Roskell used one in 1820, but that was a one-off, no others have been found, I am looking for the date between 1820 to 1880. A strange story this, all the pioneers of the lever escapement all used some type of double roller, up to Grant, then a gap till 1820. In between these dates we had the Savage two pin, the Massey, and a little before Peter Litherlands Rack Lever. Yet it was the double roller that was to rule the escapement story. Of course between these lever escapements, we had the Cylinder & the Duplex. So what happened, who was to re-introduce the Double-Roller?

Allan
Very good question (if arcane to some). Bearing in mind my data are limited to Cain/Rood/Perry companies (Hampden, Aurora, Keystone and Hamilton of course. I DO have a smattering of Waltham, Elgin and Illinois.

Prior to 1902, my database shows Hamiltons and Hampdens (from my pre 1900 Hampden 16s data) with only single rollers. Same with Keystone, New York and Aurora (no surprise). I have an AWWC 1889 Riverside w/ single roller. I also have an 1891 Illinois 16J Bunn with a single roller.

From my database, it looks like the 970 was the first DR Hamilton.

While I feel comfortable ruling out Hamilton and Hampden as the first, I cannot rule out the others. But it sure looks like Waltham was the first.
 

Allan C. Purcell

NAWCC Member
Feb 9, 2013
3,554
1,703
113
Germany
Country
Region
Thank you Jerry for the other thread, very interesting, So these threads are pushing the dates backwards. We just need more people to take a look inside some of these watches.

Allan.
 

Clint Geller

Gibbs Literary Award
NAWCC Fellow
NAWCC Member
Donor
Jul 12, 2002
2,855
3,273
113
68
Pittsburgh, PA
clintgeller.com
Country
Region
Post #12 in the other thread that I began, and which Jerry linked here, I think puts a nail in it. That image was provided courtesy of watch restorer John Wilson. But in terms of early Waltham double rollers, here is Waltham SN 2,788,058, a 21 jewel American Watch Co. Grade Model 1872 with a marked nonmagnetic double roller escapement. The hand-transcribed Waltham factory production records indicate that it was finished between 1886 and 1887. Unfortunately, I don't have an image handy of the double roller.

movt in case -3.JPG dial in case -1.JPG case front.JPG case rear.JPG movement -1 (2).JPG REARCA~2.JPG
 
Last edited:

Allan C. Purcell

NAWCC Member
Feb 9, 2013
3,554
1,703
113
Germany
Country
Region
Clint, thank you for this really nice watch, the dates are of course early, but I had it in my mind that someone like Howard or Dennison might have used the double roller, but if there is no record, then it´s just a dream, The double roller is in fact the oldest lever escapement. I will though keep looking to find some more information on this escapement in American pocket watches.

Regards,

Allan.
 

Allan C. Purcell

NAWCC Member
Feb 9, 2013
3,554
1,703
113
Germany
Country
Region
After some mix-up with PayPal, I managed to buy the watch, and this is what the seller said about it.


Rare Hampden Dueber Watch Co Variant 18s 21J Adj 5 position double roller fully marked Railroad Pocket Watch.
A Scarce variant Hampden Watch Company Marked Dueber Watch company that is a 21 jewel adjusted five position marked double roller movement that is a North American Railway grade movement. The movement has the same Damaskeening pattern and bright plates as the North American Railway but is marked Dueber Watch Company. Watch is from a smaller run of North American railways made in 1914. The movement has Great Damaskeening and bright plates with bold black lettering serial number 3268544. Movement is a clean strong Running Movement but I have not checked it for timekeeping. The case is a very nice nickel silver screw back and bezel Fahys number 1 case with light wear. The dial is the original double sunk bold Arabic dial that is very nice but does have a few faint hairlines. Great Collectable Hampden Railroad Great Pocket Watch. Please see the pictures for more information and condition. Sold as is.

My first question is the case a re-case, Fahys No. 1 case on a Deuber Company Watch?

Probably more when it arrives.

Regards,

Allan

xx-6.jpg xx-5.jpg
 

musicguy

Moderator
Staff member
NAWCC Member
Sponsor
Jan 12, 2017
9,728
6,994
113
New York State
Country

Allan C. Purcell

NAWCC Member
Feb 9, 2013
3,554
1,703
113
Germany
Country
Region
Hi Rob, I thought you were saving ink, but I see now, nice to know where to look next time. My interest though is the double roller.

Thanks,

Allan.
 
  • Like
Reactions: musicguy

Allan C. Purcell

NAWCC Member
Feb 9, 2013
3,554
1,703
113
Germany
Country
Region
The paragraph below, tells me that the double roller lever for American watches must have been before 1893.


While the watch industry helped the railroad industry, it was actually the railroad that helped to increase the precision of the pocket watch. On April 19, 1891, a world-famous train wreck took place on the Lake Shore and Michigan Southern Railway just outside Kipton, Ohio. The massive wreck was deemed to be caused by the engineer's watch as it had stopped working for just four minutes. The Railroad appointed Webb C. Ball as the Chief Time Inspector following the results of their investigation and standards were adopted declaring only certain watches that met Railroad Chronometer standards. This meant that any watch manufacturer wanting to sell to the men who worked on the railroad had to meet or exceed the newly developed General Railroad Timepiece Standards of 1893 which declared, in part, that all watches used must be open-faced, size 16 or 18 with a minimum of 17 jewels that were adjusted to at least five positions. The watches had to be adjusted to temperatures of "34°F to 100°F, have a double roller, steel escape wheel, lever set, regulator, winding stem at 12 o'clock, and have bold black Arabic numerals on a white dial, with black hands.".





xx-7.jpg xx-8.jpg

This is what the seller said. (I will know more when it arrives)

18s Columbus Watch Co 15 Jewel Adjusted "J M Gibbs" Time Inspectors Pocket Watch

Housed in a Good Champion 4 Oz Coin Silver Hinged Bezel Case
(it is antique, blemishes, dings and rub marks, see photos & conditions of sale),

Bow Stands to Attention, Nice looking Gilt Movement Plates Still Looks Good for Age
(the occasional blemish or scratch see photos),

135 Years Old, Winds, Sets & Runs, Keeps Time,

Cleaned Oiled & New Alloy Mainspring Fitted 50 Months or so ago, so coming due again
(checked in dial-up/down positions only)

Early Serial Number, Key Wind & Set, Railroad Grade in It's Day


Private Label Dial for "J. M. Gibbs Hannibal Missouri"
(a few hairlines, also chip & damage repairs around sub-dial, see photos),

Dial appears to have been completely re-corked (a little roughly done), sometime in its Life

"J. M. Gibbs had a Jewelry Store and was a Railroad Watch Time Inspector for the Wabash Lines in 1887"

That could be correct, but the dates for Fredonia are 1881-1885.

To cont...
 
  • Like
Reactions: Old rookie

musicguy

Moderator
Staff member
NAWCC Member
Sponsor
Jan 12, 2017
9,728
6,994
113
New York State
Country
Said in a very nice way, but I assume you have asked the seller permission to post
the sellers' photos and his/her description on our website as required.



Thanks
Rob
 

Jim Haney

NAWCC Member
Sponsor
Donor
Sep 21, 2002
7,403
2,615
113
72
Decatur, TN.
Country
Region
That could be correct, but the dates for Fredonia are 1881-1885.

To cont...
Alan what does the above quote have to do with the Columbus watch you are asking about?

You should know that eBay descriptions can be made into glorious For sale Ads,so it is a buyer beware world.

The only way to equip your self is Knowledge, so you must know what is BS and the Facts.

The Later Hampden you are asking about was made almost at the end of production in 1917 and Having Double Roller on the plates is not an indication of any rarity..
 
  • Like
Reactions: Old rookie

Allan C. Purcell

NAWCC Member
Feb 9, 2013
3,554
1,703
113
Germany
Country
Region
Hi Jim, thank you for that, the watch I first posted I was told is 1914, and I bought it because it had a double roller written on the balance plate. I had not seen that before. My question was when was the double roller first used on American watches? Since then Clint has asked the same question on his new thread. It appears at the moment no one knows, though Waltham seems to be the favourite`? My thoughts at the moment are the Columbus watch could also be a double roller, on the grounds it was used by a railroad inspector.

Said in a very nice way, but I assume you have asked the seller's permission to post
the sellers' photos and his/her description on our website as required.

I did ask the first time. The watch was sent from Australia on 11th June, it arrived in Germany on 8th July. The tracking number kept saying it was on its way. Then I was told by the seller the watch was on its way back to him. So its wait and see time. The chap in our post office told me the packet With my tracking number had never been in there. It happens apparently hundreds of times each day. Over-worked employees.
 

musicguy

Moderator
Staff member
NAWCC Member
Sponsor
Jan 12, 2017
9,728
6,994
113
New York State
Country

Christopher Burris

NAWCC Member
Dec 15, 2010
389
598
93
Country
Region
Allan

I'm confused about the reference to 1887 other than there is likely an ad for this jeweler showing Wabash he was a Jeweler on Wabash list of Jewelers for watch service....printed 1887…. unless I'm missing something your Columbus watch dates from abt 1884-1885, and since marked Adjusted, would have met early RR grade "desires".

There are plenty of examples shown on this site of known RR Jewelers selling their private label watches on lower, non RR grade, movements.

The dial, while having some repairs, does present nice. Dials do/did get damaged. Just a little makeup on the old lady...

I love the extra research Private labels give us.

Chris
 

Allan C. Purcell

NAWCC Member
Feb 9, 2013
3,554
1,703
113
Germany
Country
Region
(1) What was the first American watch to have a double roller escapement, and when was it produced? | NAWCC Forums
Thanks, Rob, I have managed to read them all, though unless something knew as happened this morning, there is no clear evidence of when it was first made, and by who.

Allan.
 

musicguy

Moderator
Staff member
NAWCC Member
Sponsor
Jan 12, 2017
9,728
6,994
113
New York State
Country
A&P #1 had a double roller, it was finished in the spring of 1876
Alan, this is what I was pointing to in the thread. :)

Rob
 

Allan C. Purcell

NAWCC Member
Feb 9, 2013
3,554
1,703
113
Germany
Country
Region
So the Hampden -come Dueber Watch Co. watch turned up today. It is everything the seller said it it was, except for the Fahy case. Fits well into the rules of a railway watch of 1917. 21 jewelles, 5 adjustments, black numbers and hands on the dial, and a double roller. S/N 3268344. I like it.

So the Fahy case.
IMG_1471.JPG
The seller said Nickel Silver, I thought ore silver was silver. Is it correct to think so? :confused:

Ventura County - Chapter 190 - National Association of Clock and Watch Collectors (The answer);)(Nickel Silver).


Am I right to say Dueber watch Company had bought Hampden watch company by 1917? Answer yes Dueber Watch Company Canton, Ohio 1889-1923.

IMG_1470.JPG

IMG_1468.JPG My photographs.

So I am slowly, learning about American watches, and enjoying them.

Allan.
 

musicguy

Moderator
Staff member
NAWCC Member
Sponsor
Jan 12, 2017
9,728
6,994
113
New York State
Country
Unless it says coin or sterling it's some sort of Nickle alloy.
There are many names that sound like silver but are not.:)


Rob
 

PatH

NAWCC Fellow
NAWCC Member
Dec 5, 2014
2,855
2,431
113
Texas
Country
Region
The Dueber-Hampden story is an interesting one. If you haven't already read it, there is a Bulletin supplement that is available online to NAWCC members. There are actually 2 supplements, with the second being the more complete story. While they don't specifically address the points you've discovered about your watch, they do present an interesting story of the Dueber and Hampden companies' history.
 
  • Like
Reactions: musicguy

Allan C. Purcell

NAWCC Member
Feb 9, 2013
3,554
1,703
113
Germany
Country
Region
There are actually 2 supplements, with the second being the more complete story. While they don't specifically address the points you've discovered about your watch, they do present an interesting story of the Dueber and Hampden companies' history.
Hi Pat, That was very interesting, especially the second half, though both supplements put flesh on Dueber´s bones. That effort of mine to sort out my recorded information is coming along fine, I will PM you with photographs. Makes life a lot easier.

Thanks again,

Allan.
 
  • Like
Reactions: PatH and musicguy

Kent

Gibbs Literary Award
NAWCC Star Fellow
NAWCC Silver Member
Aug 26, 2000
18,626
2,340
113
Country
...
A Scarce variant Hampden Watch Company Marked Dueber Watch company that is a 21 jewel adjusted five position marked double roller movement that is a North American Railway grade movement. The movement has the same Damaskeening pattern and bright plates as the North American Railway but is marked Dueber Watch Company. Watch is from a smaller run of North American railways made in 1914. ...
Allan:

I question this watch being a scarce variant. Hampden Watch Company 18-size watches marked "Dueber Watch Company - 21 jewel - adjusted five position - double roller" were made by the thousands and are fairly common.

As far as it being from a run of North American Railway grade watches, I'd say that it is the opposite - that the North American Railway grade watches were from a run of Dueber Watch Company grade watches.

Ed Ueberall and I have the following serial numbers listed in our data base of surviving examples of railroad watches and other interesting (to us) watches:

As always, the data listed is subject to possible errors of reporting or recording.

Serial No. - Marked
3,268,034 - NA Rwy
3,268,055 - Dueber
3,268,121 - Dueber
3,268,157 - Dueber
3,268,245 - Dueber
3,268,327 - Dueber
3,268,381 - Dueber
3,268,395 - NA Rwy
3,268,403 - NA Rwy
3,268,514 - Dueber
3,268,599 - Dueber
3,268,649 - Dueber
3,268,864 - Dueber
3,268,938 - Dueber

I also think that your understanding of watch inspection could use some updating. These Encyclopedia articles may be helpful to you,
Railroad Watch
Railroad Time Service
Railroad Time Service Watch Rules

Please feel free to ask about anything that isn't clear to you.

Good luck,
Kent
 

Tom McIntyre

Technical Admin
Staff member
NAWCC Star Fellow
NAWCC Ruby Member
Sponsor
Golden Circle
Aug 24, 2000
85,030
2,763
113
86
Boston
awco.org
Country
Region
With respect to the later Deuber Hampden story, I recall that Armand Hammer, big in the oil industry, had connections in Russia that were all part of the big move to the USSR. I really would love to see someone do a dramatic interpretation of that bit of history some day.

We might even get into the NAWCC's Past President Bernie Edwards doing a little time in a Soviet jail over his import/export business.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Allan C. Purcell

Allan C. Purcell

NAWCC Member
Feb 9, 2013
3,554
1,703
113
Germany
Country
Region
Kent that is very good of you, I will try my best to find out what I am buying at the moment, and I will not forget your fine offer of assistance. I am quite sure the watch is not rare, my interest, when buying the watch was the double roller on the plate. Those "Railroad Time service" files are wonderful. but does not that prove my watch would fit in on the 1919 file.? It does have a lot going for it. I have had it running since I got it yesterday, and it has lost a few seconds overnight, but when it was last serviced, no one knows. I will have it serviced soon.

Good news this morning, my Columbus watch I bought in June, is now on its way back to Germany, I have my fingers crossed it reaches my home this time. :cool: The seller by the way is an NAWCC member, he knows his onions, or she? (ngupaan)

I spend some time over the weekend searching the life and times of Charles V. Woerd, a most interesting and clever engineer, do you know anyone who has a good photograph of his "Saw Balance Wheel" I have the patent drawings, but photographs tell you more.

Thanks again, (Till next time)

Allan.
 

Kent

Gibbs Literary Award
NAWCC Star Fellow
NAWCC Silver Member
Aug 26, 2000
18,626
2,340
113
Country
my interest, when buying the watch was the double roller on the plate.
Allan:

I've wondered for years about this watch. Despite having the necessary features of a railroad watch, I don't recall seeing the 18-size, 21-jewel Dueber Watch Co. grade being advertised as one by Hampden or others. Nor do I recall seeing it specifically listed in any railroad rules.

An example is page DH-2 of the Oskamp-Nolting Co. Great American Jewelry Catalog 1917 (below). Although the New Railway, Special Railway and John C. Dueber are specifically listed as being Railroad Grade, the 18-size, 21-jewel Dueber Watch Co. grade isn't.

pg_DH02_Hampden_18S.jpg
 

Allan C. Purcell

NAWCC Member
Feb 9, 2013
3,554
1,703
113
Germany
Country
Region
Kent,

Again a very valuable post, after seeing the Oskamp-Nolting Co." I had a quick look around and found the article by Rails-West.
This too does not really prove that the 18 size-21 Jewel was a railroad watch. it just indicates so?


Thanks again.,

Allan.
 

rrwatch

Gibbs Literary Award
NAWCC Star Fellow
NAWCC Member
Sep 4, 2000
1,495
589
113
76
Pooler, GA USA
www.antiquewatchmaker.com
Country
Region
In addition to the 18 size, 21 jewel Dueber Watch Co., which was made in fairly large quantities, there were also a small number of 16 size, 21 jewel movements made that also carried the Dueber Watch Co. engraving. We know of only 4 examples, all between 2,713,801 - 2,713,850 serial number range.
Through from the markings it appears that these would pass RR inspection, I do'n't know of any written description that would enlighten us for certain.
EBU 16241 Hampden Dueber Watch Co. Ser 5 21J OF Dial.jpg EBU 16241 Hampden Dueber Watch Co. Ser 5 21J OF Case Back.jpg EBU 16241 Hampden Dueber Watch Co. Ser 5 21J OF Mvt.jpg
 
Last edited:

Clint Geller

Gibbs Literary Award
NAWCC Fellow
NAWCC Member
Donor
Jul 12, 2002
2,855
3,273
113
68
Pittsburgh, PA
clintgeller.com
Country
Region
I spent some time over the weekend searching the life and times of Charles V. Woerd, a most interesting and clever engineer, do you know anyone who has a good photograph of his "Saw Balance Wheel" I have the patent drawings, but photographs tell you more.
Allan, these pix of my watch may suit your needs. By the way, NAWCC Bulletin Special Order Supplement #5, entitled Boston: Cradle of Industrial Watchmaking, published in 2005, which is based on the proceedings of the 23rd Annual NAWCC Seminar that I chaired in Boxboro, MA in 2002, includes an excellent essay by my friend Craig Risch, entitled "The Life and Work of Charles Vander Woerd." Perhaps that is one of the sources you found.

DSCN1439.JPG DSCN1440.JPG DSCN1441 (1).JPG DSCN1533.JPG DSCN1531 (1).JPG DSCN1535.JPG DSCN1536.JPG DSCN1513 (1).JPG DSCN1514 (1).JPG DSCN1515.JPG DSCN1516.JPG DSCN1521 (1).JPG DSCN1522.JPG
 
Last edited:

PatH

NAWCC Fellow
NAWCC Member
Dec 5, 2014
2,855
2,431
113
Texas
Country
Region
Clint Geller thanks for that reminder of the article(s). I didn't see a digital copy of the supplement you mentioned, but I did find Craig Risch's Vander Woerd's article that appeared in the December 2002 and February 2003 Bulletins, and am including the links below. Vander Woerd's contributions were key, and he is definitely one of the horological legends.
 

Kent

Gibbs Literary Award
NAWCC Star Fellow
NAWCC Silver Member
Aug 26, 2000
18,626
2,340
113
Country
Have another that is just a little outside that range Ed, so that will be 5 known:)
What serial number is it?
 

Allan C. Purcell

NAWCC Member
Feb 9, 2013
3,554
1,703
113
Germany
Country
Region
Clint, these photographs are just what I was looking for, very good of you to look them up for me, though I am sure many other members will appreciate them too.

Now the "Boston: Cradle of Industrial Watchmaking" I found the copy on the board and printed it off. To save space, I have brocken it down to its six sections and has I going on holiday on Saturday I can take it with me. We are on a cruise boat on the Rheine and Mosel, so plenty of time to read between stoppages. I am also printing out "American Watchmaking A Technical History of the American Watch Industry 1850-1930" by Michael C. Harrold. ( Woerd is not even mentioned)

In the Cradle, there is a piece by you and Craig Risch, (The C. in my name is for Craig) on page 119, but nothing about Woerd, and I could not find Craig´s piece on Woerd. :confused:

IMG_1480.JPG

IMG_1481.JPG
I have also read Mr E. A. Marsh and his remarks are most interesting on page 22. Though I would really like to read the work by Craig Risch.

Thank you and and best wishes for your help,

Allan
 

Clint Geller

Gibbs Literary Award
NAWCC Fellow
NAWCC Member
Donor
Jul 12, 2002
2,855
3,273
113
68
Pittsburgh, PA
clintgeller.com
Country
Region
Clint, these photographs are just what I was looking for, very good of you to look them up for me, though I am sure many other members will appreciate them too.

Now the "Boston: Cradle of Industrial Watchmaking" I found the copy on the board and printed it off. To save space, I have brocken it down to its six sections and has I going on holiday on Saturday I can take it with me. We are on a cruise boat on the Rheine and Mosel, so plenty of time to read between stoppages. I am also printing out "American Watchmaking A Technical History of the American Watch Industry 1850-1930" by Michael C. Harrold. ( Woerd is not even mentioned)

In the Cradle, there is a piece by you and Craig Risch, (The C. in my name is for Craig) on page 119, but nothing about Woerd, and I could not find Craig´s piece on Woerd. :confused:

View attachment 724140

View attachment 724151
I have also read Mr E. A. Marsh and his remarks are most interesting on page 22. Though I would really like to read the work by Craig Risch.

Thank you and and best wishes for your help,

Allan
Allan, you are looking at the on-site exhibit catalog for the 2002 seminar, not the book based on the proceedings of the seminar, which was published in 2005. Craig's article on Woerd is in Part III beginning on page 77. Below is what that book cover looks like. And Mike Harrold's book gives a superb overview of American watchmaking history.

1662047491044.png
 
Last edited:

PatH

NAWCC Fellow
NAWCC Member
Dec 5, 2014
2,855
2,431
113
Texas
Country
Region
In the Cradle, there is a piece by you and Craig Risch, (The C. in my name is for Craig) on page 119, but nothing about Woerd, and I could not find Craig´s piece on Woerd. :confused:
I haven't been able to find a copy of the book, but did find Craig's presentation that was printed as two Bulletin articles. A link to Craig's piece on Vander Woerd is included in post #34 of this thread. Hope this helps.
 

Allan C. Purcell

NAWCC Member
Feb 9, 2013
3,554
1,703
113
Germany
Country
Region
Pat, just in time, I can now take them with me on the Rhein trip. Thank you very much. You and Clint have saved the day.

Though a large thank you to the author Craig Risch.

PS: Pat, there are two copies of the book on the ABC books but the sellers want over a hundred pounds with postage from America, and it will take two weeks to get here. I would say they missed the boat. :)Thanks again,

Allan.
 
  • Like
Reactions: musicguy and PatH

musicguy

Moderator
Staff member
NAWCC Member
Sponsor
Jan 12, 2017
9,728
6,994
113
New York State
Country
  • Like
Reactions: Allan C. Purcell

Allan C. Purcell

NAWCC Member
Feb 9, 2013
3,554
1,703
113
Germany
Country
Region

"? In the early part of 1886, they brought in E. C. Hammer of Boston to furnish the necessary starting capital. In April of that year, Woerd and Hammer bought from the city about three acres of land on the south side of Charles Street, bounded on the west by South Street, for the purpose of erecting a factory. They had at first considered naming their new enterprise the Waltham Watch Company but found it necessary to reconsider this choice when Royal Robbins threatened them with a lawsuit. They subsequently settled on the name United States Watch Company, which became known as the U.S. Watch Company at Waltham, or as the trade came to call them, "Waltham's other watch company." The rights to the name "Waltham Watch Tool Company" were transferred to the Hopkins Watch Tool Company of Waltham. When the U.S. Watch Company's organization was complete, Woerd and Hammer then sold the three acres of property they had acquired to the company, and one wing of a planned two-winged structure was then erected to serve as the factory. Thomas R. Eaton became president of the company with Hammer serving as treasurer. Woerd was made general manager and factory superintendent"

This is a quote Rob, from Craig Risch´s part one. The Life and Work of C. V. Woerd. I bought a movement this week that probably won't get here till next month, and I wondered if you could tell me more about it. My questions are was this made while he was at Waltham? is this the first Waltham Riverside,? and what are the "Woerd´s Patents" on this movement? Plus this movement looks almost identicle to the Swiss watches made by Gruen. The last question did he and Hammer buy in Swiss ebauches?

Best wishes,

Allan.

xx-37.jpg
 

Allan C. Purcell

NAWCC Member
Feb 9, 2013
3,554
1,703
113
Germany
Country
Region
Hi Kent,
So at last S/N 2713855 has arrived in Germany? I hope to have it next week. Customs are slow over here. (I cannot go and fetch yet, got to get rid of this Covid 19, they will hold it for me till then.)

So a couple of photographs for now.

Allan.

xx-48.jpg xx-47.jpg
 

Forum statistics

Threads
176,309
Messages
1,543,248
Members
53,239
Latest member
comcpher
Encyclopedia Pages
1,064
Total wiki contributions
3,031
Last update
-