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Discussion in 'American Pocket Watches' started by musicguy, Sep 11, 2018.
Ran across this Waterbury Longwind Series C in the box
Great watch and box, Jim!
Gotta love the 9 foot spring that's hiding under that back cover. Rather an ingenious piece of engineering to help reduce the costs. Yes, I know the pictured one is not attached, but I'm sure not going to be the one to work on this! I don't want to, and no one else would want me to, either.
Cort and Dave,
Do you think that these prices were to the trade, or were they selling to the public in 1/2 cent increments in the 1910 era? I ran across a 1910 New Jersey Supreme Ct lawsuit where International Watch Co. (New Jersey) was suing the Delaware, Lackawanna & Western Railroad company for losing 401 watches from a shipment going from Hoboken to Portland OR 1907. They valued the watches at 50 cents each, which seems to me would have been the cost to the dealer rather than to the public. Thoughts anyone?
And just so we stay on the dollar watch theme, here's an International Watch Co watch.
Pat, The 57 1/2 cent price is hard to fathom considering the half cent coin had been obsolete for decades. I believe the 67 cent watch was an offer to the public because other watch prices in the ad were about what could be found elsewhere ca. 1933. I can't say for sure though.-Cort
I like to be able to find a few of these 9 foot springs Pat, as I have a few that need replacing.
Pat, I'm not a coin collector, but I think the 1/2 cent coin was discontinued around 1857, so it would make more since that the 57 1/2 cent price would be a dealers price.
On page 79 of he expanded version of Townsend's book is an Ingersoll Compact watch.
The watch case, pulls out of an outer case, and rotates up and the outer case becomes a stand.
The movement is a 0-size, 4 jewel movement. Serial number 94253868, circa 1942
Thanks for sharing your thoughts, and the watch, Dave.
These little Ingersoll compact watches are beautiful. Thanks for showing the movement, as I've never tried to open this one from the 1939 New York World's Fair. I had no idea what kind of movement they had.
If there are no other breaks in the spring it can be saved with a hole in the end and curled or bent to fit the arbor.
Thanks for letting me know, Jim. That's good news. I need to gather up my watches, change out the old yellowed crystals, and get more of them in running condition. Another thing for my to-do list.
I posted this a few months ago in a thread started by johnnypocket, but I think it deserves a spot here also.
It is an Ansonia pocket watch designed for an ash tray that was patented in 1922. The watch movement is marked A22 (1922).
I'm a non-smoker, but I love this patent. Not good for the watch though, I'm sure.
"Dave, these little folding clocks are very appealing. They use the same movement as the early 30's Mickeys but I am pretty sure they do not have jewels, at least none I've ever seen. "
The movements are like the 30's Mickeys pocket watches or wrist watches?
Here is a nice Ansonia Clock Co "The New York" model, original timber box & calico bag, has the directions on the side of the box, patent date of 1888, looks to be what they called a "Boy Proof" model.
In the following I will show some of my Waterbury long wind models, sort of shows a bit of the evolution of the Waterbury Watch Company from the early start of Benedict & Burnham Mfg Company. First is the latter mentioned in Arabic & Roman numeral dial styles, the 6 spoke model.
Pat & Cort,
I was just going by the drawing in the expanded version of Townsend's $ book page 17, plate 45. List as 0-size, Open Face, Ingersoll 4 Jewels.
The Waterbury "Series A" 6 spoke skeleton long winds.
The Waterbury "Series B" long wind
The "Series C", the box advertising must have change over the years as depicted by some of these?
I do not have a "Series D" to show, have tried to get one on a few occasions but always missed out So instead I will show a bit of a rare bird, a "Series G" Waterbury, 18 Size 3/4 plate key wind with lever escapement the only type made by them in this configuration to my knowledge, low serial and have not seen another, must be more out there somewhere
Oh, nearly forgot the "Series E" long wind
Here's a Series F.
I believe these were G.E. Hart's patents of May 31, 1887 #364,015 and 364,105 assigned to Waterbury Watch.
Bila's Series G seems to possibly be D.A.A. Buck's patent 293,143 of February 5, 1884, assigned to WWC. But, this one is also marked as a G and begins the series based on additional patents by G.E. Hart.
I've not seen a Series H. Has anyone else?
Here's an I (definitely as found condition - another of those that needs to go in my to be repaired stack!) Not sure who might have designed this plate/movement.
Here is a Waterbury Series L
A couple of different models marked J.
And a K. To me, this one looks more like Bila's series G. I wonder if there is a K that has the Waterbury Watch information like the J above and Dave's L have. Has anyone seen one?
Appears to be jeweled Dave, I think these were 4 jewels as I also have one here somewhere, is yours a 4-6 Size
That is an interesting 3/4 plate Pat, as it is a duplex, I wonder why they only ever made the one lever type, as every other Waterbury I have seen is a duplex and normally full plate?
Here is another you do not see to often, had 3 of these over the years in both Gold Tone and Nickel Silver cases with the case stand accessory, To my knowledge they could be purchased with or with-out the case stand. E. N Welch Mfg Company 36 Size Columbus Exhibition Watch (more like a clock really).
Great item, Bila! Interestingly, I haven't been able to find anything about Welch having a display at the Exhibition, so perhaps these were sold offsite. Yours is in great shape, probably from having been protected by the case all these years. Thanks for sharing!
Here is an additional K - an Addison.
I was going through some of my Waterbury ephemera last night and found the H - the movement is not marked, but this parts list shows the Columbian as an H. Size 6, hunting case. From what I have found in other resources, the Columbian was not produced for very long. The Columbian name appears to have been trademarked in preparation of the 1893 Columbian Exposition.
Bila, I believe it is an 8-size.
Pat, Addison 18s are usually K series but I do have some Addisons with plates that match your J series. They are not marked with a series letter though. I also have one K with demascened nickel plates which I don't believe to be at all common. I have very much enjoyed seeing the Waterburys (esp. the G, J and Pat's crazy Trump above). I never considered these post-long-wind to be $ watches though and they do not conform to Townsend's criteria for them. I am not too concerned though because I have long wanted to see examples of these scarce models. -Cort
...and then I went to search my non-Addison Waterbury box and found I have one of those L trumps.I'm pretty focused on Addisons I guess (*;*)
Here is a Waterbury Series W, Addison, Duplex.
Also a Series J, one like Pat showed above.
Dave, that's terrific, your series W has a big W on.the back! Also, there are Addison signed H series like Pat's Columbian shown above.-Cort
Just to supplement, here a couple of pages from Tran Duy Ly's book on Welch Clocks dealing with these, what shall we call them, wocks or clatches? Excuse the photo quality.
Here are some of the various Addison versions side-by-side. K, N, unmarked, and W - not sure why the W photographed as silver.
Cort, I don't think I have an Addison with the damascened plates. I'm not sure any of these later Waterbury Watch Co/New England Watch Company watches are considered dollar watches, either, but they're fun and some are very attractive. Especially the Addisons!
I'll move us back to dollar watches. Still a Waterbury - but this time it's an alarm watch from Waterbury Clock Co rather than Waterbury Watch Co.
Here is a large Ingersoll "Waterbury Clock Co." Back Wind & Set.
Waterbury made two versions of this watch - one with seconds bit at 6 and one at 12. Here are side-by-side comparisons. Neither of these watches had the movement cover when I acquired them, so I can't compare patent dates. However, they do appear to be the same movement, just oriented differently in the case. The third picture shows the one in the "silver" case turned 180 degrees.
Pastor Stop Watch, with start, stop & fly back to zero function.
The Sterling Watch Co. New York, U.S.A. (on dial)
The Sterling Watch Company Inc. Waterbury, Conn. U.S.A. (on movement)
Manufactured 6 25 (June 1925), by The E. Ingraham Co.
A Westclox Boyproof movement with the dial marked RECORD.
Dial hour numbers in a blue sunburst design.
The Guarantee paper is dated 6-15-1913
Possibly carried by a newspaper hawker, newsboy, newbie, a street vendor of newspapers, without a fixed newsstand.
Great watch, Dave!
Not to derail the thread, but does anyone know who patented the "boyproof" cover(s)? It seems they were used by multiple makers, but I don't think I've ever seen anything written about them. Did each company patent a slightly different version? Who was first to use them? etc. Any info would be helpful.
Pat, I don't know the answer to your question. This is all I have been able to find, but the patent number does not lead me to the boy proof patent.
Trade-mark For Clocks And Watches
Picked this one up recently.
By the New Haven Clock Co.
Back of case does not remove.
I removed the dial and stamped on the movement is:
PAT'D DEC 31 - 95
" SEP. 8 - 96
It is a stem-wind & set.
Interesting - both of these patents are Wilson E. Porter assignor to New Haven Clock #552,329 Watchcase and #567,409 Stem winding and setting watch. Neither is listed in Townsend's book, so I've penciled them in my copy. Thanks for removing the dial to reveal this bit of information!
Michael, I think it might be difficult to know exactly when your watch was produced, quantity, etc. Can you share a picture of the dial? Since there are no patent dates on the dial, do you know if your watch has any patent dates under the dial like pwcollector's does? These could provide a clue as to the earliest it was likely produced.
On further investigation, I found quite a few more Wilson Porter watch patents assigned to NHCC that are not included in Townsend's book. And, as a sidebar, it looks like he also invented several features of the New Haven pedometer, along with many of the NHCC clock patents.