The "Dollar" watch, show me some of yours.

Discussion in 'American Pocket Watches' started by musicguy, Sep 11, 2018.

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  1. Steven Thornberry

    Steven Thornberry User Administrator
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    I think it might be a bit more complex. The Waterbury Watch Co. became the New England Watch Co. Ingersoll took over New England; then, Waterbury Clock Co. took over Ingersoll. In 1944, Waterbury Clock Co. became the United States Time Corp., which produced the Timex brand. In 1969 United States Time Corp. became the Timex Corp. Corrections, please. In any event, the New England Watch Co. was in the line of descent to Timex.

    And now, a moment of silence for John Cameron Swayze, who took a licking and kept on ticking.
     
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  2. PatH

    PatH Registered User
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    Linking a great thread on Leonard dollar watches in case you'd like to see some additional dollar watch examples.
    Leonard Pocket Watches
     
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  3. Kevin Neathery

    Kevin Neathery Registered User
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    Showed up in the mailbox today.

    Manhattan serial 7390. This is the first model so the setting is by the small button on the side that you press in and turn with your nail. Nickel plated case has turned a even grey. Paper dial is a plain paper not coated like the later ones.

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  4. Bila

    Bila Registered User
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    Very nice piece and scarce with the pin set Kevin, but in my opinion not a "Dollar Watch" in the true sense, but still kinda of fits here, a bit like the Long-Wind Waterbury's and Auburndale Watch Co's:)

    Erin
     
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  5. Tim Fitzgerald

    Tim Fitzgerald Registered User
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    How about this New England Watch company Rugby In a sterling silver original case

    rugby dial.jpg rugby watch.jpg s-l64.jpg
     
  6. PatH

    PatH Registered User
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    Very nice, Tim! I think the Rugby is one of the Waterbury Watch Co/New England Watch Company transitional models. From the logo, your Rugby Series P seems to be a Waterbury while my rugby Series LG is marked New England.

    The first three pictures are Waterbury Rugby items, while the next pictures are my watch that is marked New England Watch Co.

    Waterbury models.jpg Waterbury parts 1895.jpg 1895 Rugby ad for boys.jpg New England Watch Co Rugby LG.JPG New England Watch Co Rugby LG movement.JPG
     
  7. musicguy

    musicguy Moderator
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    I agree


    Rob
     
  8. Tim Fitzgerald

    Tim Fitzgerald Registered User
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    I wonder why they put it in a sterling silver case? I cleaned & serviced it & is running very well
     
  9. Jim Haney

    Jim Haney Registered User
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    Tim,

    The 3rd pic won't enlarge. Is it marked Sterling? The bow is not . Is is a screw or friction fit bezels. A picture would answer most questions.

    If it is sterling, I doubt it was factory cased in it and someone decided to put it in one over the last 120+ years:D
     
  10. PatH

    PatH Registered User
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    Several of the smaller size New England watches that I have are in silver cases, often with a logo NE inside a heart. They also had enameled cases, many of them with matching brooches. Perhaps it was because they were trying to improve their image? Of course, this is likely one thing that kept them from really being dollar watches.

    DSC03980.JPG DSC03983.JPG DSC04326.JPG DSC04327.JPG DSC04329.JPG DSC04328.JPG DSC06481.JPG DSC06483.JPG DSC06482.JPG
     
  11. musicguy

    musicguy Moderator
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    Very nice Pat


    Rob
     
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  12. PatH

    PatH Registered User
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    Here are a couple of ads from 1899 Jewelers' Circular & Horological Review that talk about the cases being sterling and gold.

    1899-11-08 JCHR NEWC Elf ad full page.png 1899-11-22 JCHR NEWC Elf Enameled watches.png
     
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  13. musicguy

    musicguy Moderator
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    Close up view of it running:



    "The first short wind that was really widely mass marketed to the general public was the "Series J", released in late November 1888."

    On these you push the crown in to set the time.

    like it.jpg ;hihp.jpg zxz (2).jpg




    Rob
     
  14. musicguy

    musicguy Moderator
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    Just to add to my post above, I was surprised how much of a quality
    difference there is between the Series E and the Series J. The Series J is
    a watch that can be used. You don't have to set the time by pushing the
    hands around manually(like a clock) and the Series J has some real weight to it,
    they seem to be very well made(and the dial is not paper).

    Rob
     
  15. PatH

    PatH Registered User
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    This is a blurb from The Waterbury October 1888, Waterbury Watch Company's magazine for the trade, that announces the Series J. (Would like to give credit for the scan, but I can't remember if this is from a copy of the magazine at the Library, or if it came from one of my issues)

    Series J announced 10-1888.png
     
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  16. musicguy

    musicguy Moderator
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    That's great thanks

    Rob
     
  17. Tim Fitzgerald

    Tim Fitzgerald Registered User
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    Sorry about that Jim The bow is gold the case is sterling w\

    20191107_170103.jpg
     
  18. Jim Haney

    Jim Haney Registered User
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    Tim,
    Thanks for the picture. I have never seen one like that. The bow looks like it was silver or nickel plated and has worn down to the brass ?
     
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  19. musicguy

    musicguy Moderator
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    From 1898

    Untitled.jpg



    Rob
     
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  20. 4thdimension

    4thdimension Registered User

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    Interesting. I am guessing, but I suppose they were referring to their nickel plate movements. I do have a nickel plate Addison K size which didn't make it to this list. -Cort
     
  21. 4thdimension

    4thdimension Registered User

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    p.s -and remember, Waterbury's aren't dollar watches -Cort
     
  22. musicguy

    musicguy Moderator
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    The dollar price point(I believe) was first reached in 1896 with the Ingersoll
    Yankee, setting its price at $1

    The earlier Waterbury Watch Company watches were not retailed for a dollar but the
    initial goal was to make an affordable easy to manufacture watch that could
    be sold to the everyday person.

    When the Waterbury Watch Company started, the first watches
    made were very similar in appearance to those made by Benedict and Burnham.
    The Waterbury Watch Co. used a skeletonized pattern for the plates but they were fancier
    than the original Benedict and Burnham ones. These new skeletonized ones
    sold for $3.50(and put Waterbury on the map). But Waterbury soon found out that by
    not skeletonizing the plates, the long-wind could be sold for a
    a dollar less at $2.50. They never sold a skeletonized again after this transition.
    In 1888 they also began manufacturing a wide range of "short wind" watches
    which cost more than the $2.50 they were charging for the long wind.
    These were much higher quality watches and you didn't need to set
    the time by moving the hands yourself with your finger(like you do with a clock).
    These newer Waterbury Watch Company watches also were sold in
    Nickle Silver, Silver, and Gold Filled. The first short wind that was widely mass marketed to the
    general public was the "Series J". There is a world of difference between the
    long wind and the series J. I still like to wind my long wind even though it takes me ten minutes(lol)

    As time passed we still call zero jeweled watches into the 60's dollar watches
    even though they didn't cost a dollar.

    like-it-jpg.jpg


    the-truth-newspaper-december-1890-waterbury-watch-jpg.jpg Waterbury_Watches.jpg



    Rob
     
  23. PatH

    PatH Registered User
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    #473 PatH, Dec 4, 2019
    Last edited: Dec 4, 2019
    Just a note that Waterbury Watch Co. was formed by Benedict and Burnham after they proved the feasibility of producibility of Buck's long wind watch. The backs of the WWC movements were not pierced, or skeletonized, like the B&B watches were, however the dial side was skeletonized for several of the early models, including one with 3 spokes rather than the more common 6 spoke. I will try to take some side by side pictures to post later today.
     
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  24. PatH

    PatH Registered User
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    As mentioned in previous post - photos of Benedict & Burnham (B&B) and Waterbury (WWC) early skeleton watches, along with a Series C that has the solid back and dial.

    B&B 6 spoke, B&B 3 spoke, WWC 6 spoke series A, WWC series B.

    DSC04005.JPG DSC04009.JPG DSC03249.JPG DSC03250.JPG Waterbury Series A front.JPG Waterbury Series A back.JPG DSC04188.JPG DSC04190.JPG
     
  25. musicguy

    musicguy Moderator
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    PatH you have a great collection.


    Rob
     
  26. PatH

    PatH Registered User
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    Thanks, Rob, and thanks for starting this thread! These watches definitely have a special place in my heart. They, and the people who created and marketed them, played such a big part in making time affordable. All in addition to creating some innovative timekeepers and thousands of watches that commemorate history and widely used products.

    I hope to see even more examples added to this thread in the coming year.
     
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  27. Jim Haney

    Jim Haney Registered User
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    Found this at the recent NAWCC show in Lexington, KY for $15

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  28. PatH

    PatH Registered User
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    Great find at a great price, Jim!! Thank you for sharing with us!
     
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  29. Steven Thornberry

    Steven Thornberry User Administrator
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    Jim, what is the shape of the case? From the pictures, it appears to be round. The New Haven Tip-Top models that I am familiar with have had an octagonal or pentagonal shape to the case, and they generally have Tip-Top written on the dial.
     
  30. Jim Haney

    Jim Haney Registered User
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    It is round and someone may have switched watches in the box:???:
     
  31. Steven Thornberry

    Steven Thornberry User Administrator
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    It is my impression that the box and watch are not original to each other, but I am continually surprised.
     
  32. PatH

    PatH Registered User
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    Upon a closer look, the watch does say Compensated, so a "marriage", but now you have a great box and just need to keep an eye out for a Tip Top with radium dial. Seems the box and papers are worth the $15!
     
  33. PW Collector

    PW Collector Registered User

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    Jim,
    I'm a little late responding to your post. I'm in the camp of the mis-matched box to watch.
    I have a Tip-Top box & watch but not the radium dial option.
    The box I have (actually have 2 boxes) marked:
    020002 2 NICKELED
    TIP-TOP
    OPEN DIAL Q BACK
    The watch is in an octagon shape case, and the movement is marked, THE NEW HAVEN CLOCK CO. U.S.A. PAT. PEND.
    These were offered in both plain & radium dial versions.
    The second box I have also had a New Haven Compensated watch in it as yours does, but neither of mine are in "new condition" like yours.
    Dave

    DSCN1419.JPG DSCN1420.JPG DSCN1418.JPG DSCN1415.JPG DSCN1414.JPG Scan 2020-1-25 11.43.31.jpg Scan 2020-1-25 11.49.49.jpg
     
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  34. Steven Thornberry

    Steven Thornberry User Administrator
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    It would be interesting to see the back of your watch. After Jim posted and I replied, I came across a few pocket watches in Tran Duy Ly's book on New Haven clocks and watches whose descriptions mentioned that they came with either a "V" back or a "Q" back. The "V" style had a locomotive back; the "Q" style had a linear back. These were from 1937. I haven't done a more thorough search through Tran's book.
    Model B.JPG

    My New Haven Tip-Top Quintet would seem to have a "Q" back.
    Case Back.JPG
     
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  35. 4mula1fan

    4mula1fan Registered User

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    In the box with the paperwork.

    IMG_3251.jpg
     
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  36. PW Collector

    PW Collector Registered User

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    Steven,
    Here is the back cover. Appears to be the same as in your ad posted.
    Dave

    DSCN1424.JPG DSCN1419.JPG
     
  37. Steven Thornberry

    Steven Thornberry User Administrator
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    Thanks for the pictures. I just noticed (and should have noticed earlier) that the company designation on your box and accompanying paper is New Haven Clock and Watch Co. Per Chris Bailey's introduction to Tran Duy Ly's New Haven book, that names was adopted on March 6, 1946, following a reorganization of the company. Whether that name might have been used earlier informally, I cant say. But, if it wasn't used earlier, your watch would have been produced no earlier than 1946. I'll see if I can find additional information.
     
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  38. PW Collector

    PW Collector Registered User

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    Steven,
    The other box I have has a gold instruction paper inside that has a purchase date of June 18, 1947.
    Dave

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  39. Steven Thornberry

    Steven Thornberry User Administrator
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  40. Steven Thornberry

    Steven Thornberry User Administrator
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    A simple Ingersoll Junior. From the SN (67868650), Townsend's list puts it ca. 1926-26.

    Dial.JPG Movement.JPG

    Of more interest, perhaps, was the paper found in the inside back case, which spurred me on to some minor prosopographical analysis.
    Paper1 (1).JPG

    The C.R. Comrie mentioned is likely this paterfamilias mentioned in the 1940 census. Note the address is the same as on the watch paper.

    Charles R Comrie in the 1940 Census | Ancestry®

    The "Russel Comrie" mentioned at the top of the paper may be the son of C.R. Comrie, the Russell Malcolm Comrie found here:

    Russell Malcolm Comrie (1913-2003) • FamilySearch.

    Born in 1913, he quite possibly was not a member of his father's household in 1940, when he would have been about 27. Perhaps he was even in the U. S. Army; there is a Major Russell Comrie mentioned in a couple of books, such as this one, where there are two mentions:

    History Of The Third Infantry Division In World War II

    The date 2/4/30, then, may be the date Russell acquired the watch, a suitable watch for a 16-year old boy in difficult economic times.

    Well, just some guesswork.
     
  41. PW Collector

    PW Collector Registered User

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    To revive this thread again, I will add another dollar watch.
    This is a E. Ingraham Co. watch, with a April 1940 date on the movement.
    The dial & etched logo on the watch were added at a later date.
    The Smith & Wesson logo on the back cover was not introduced by S&W until 1952.
    The dial is representative of an advertisement of a .38 S&W Safety Hammerless, that I'm not sure when the ad appeared.
    The .38 cal. S&W Safety Hammerless was introduced in 1887 with the first model & continued to 1940 with its 5th model.
    The safety bar on the back of the grip had to be depressed with the palm of the hand before the trigger could be pulled.
    Dave

    DSCN1443.JPG DSCN1442.JPG DSCN1444.JPG DSCN1448.JPG DSCN1508.jpg
     
  42. musicguy

    musicguy Moderator
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    Sadly I think that most of these(as you said above) are
    "created" by modern sellers who know people would be excited
    by Motor companies, soda companies, gun companies etc

    About 3-4 years ago there was a Seller on Ebay that had
    over 75-100 of these that had modern etching and had a company info
    or advertisements on the dial (and he was selling them as original.)
    He(or someone else) did it to dollar watches, Waltham's, and Elgin's and many other
    watch companies. He always had 10-15 up at a time and most
    times they would sell for well over $100.00(especially the Indian motorcycle and Harley ones)


    Rob
     
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  43. John Matthews

    John Matthews Registered User
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    I have just been working backwards through my collection of pocket watches and arrived at the second pocket watch I purchased, back in September 2015 - I believe it to be an Ingraham dollar stop watch with a thin card dial. To be truthful, it has been sitting in tray #1 forgotten. As far as I can see, there isn't another example in the thread.

    01.jpg 03.jpg

    The stop function is working correctly, although I haven't checked it's accuracy. It has [10] & [37] stamped on the plate in two separate positions and in notes I made shortly after purchase, I concluded that this could be interpreted to infer that it was made in October 1937. The photographs I have could be better - if there is any interest I can take additional photographs.

    John
     
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  44. Steven Thornberry

    Steven Thornberry User Administrator
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    It is an Ingraham and you are correct about October 1937. Interesting watch. There was another one in Post # 243 of this thread, made as a private label for Sterling Watch Co.
     
  45. viclip

    viclip Registered User
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    A request to show me if I may ...

    Can anyone post a shot(s) of the New Haven "Victor" model?

    It's listed in the now defunct Price Guide but not illustrated.
     
  46. John Matthews

    John Matthews Registered User
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    Thanks Steven - I missed it. Can anyone explain the function of the Sterling Watch mechanism I have circled? as it is not present on my example.

    upload_2020-4-26_17-54-26.png

    John
     
  47. PatH

    PatH Registered User
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    It looks like Ingersoll built on their 1893 Columbian Exposition notoriety The "Dollar" watch, show me some of yours. by exhibiting at the 1900 International Universal Exposition in Paris. Their products were included in Class 96 - Clock and watch making - Equipment, processes and products. There were 5 other US entries in this class - all clock-related companies. While I haven't found a list or picture of their booth, I did run across this souvenir watch. I don't know if these were sold as souvenirs at the Expo, but they likely provide a glimpse of the types of watches that were exhibited. Also not sure if this movement is original to this watch since it's one of theirs that is not marked Ingersoll, but it is appropriate for the period.

    If the dial looks familiar, it may be because it's the same basic dial as the Dewey watch a year or so earlier. The "Dollar" watch, show me some of yours.

    Time for a history lesson....Anyone care to name the World leaders pictures on the dial?

    DSC06963.JPG DSC06965.JPG DSC06968.JPG DSC06969.JPG
     
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  48. Steven Thornberry

    Steven Thornberry User Administrator
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    It looks very like Townsend's Ingersoll Plate 22. His plate does not show the Ingersoll name, but does show the M.
     
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  49. PatH

    PatH Registered User
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    Here's the movement from a 1901 World's Fair watch that is very similar to the Paris Expo watch. Primary differences are the color and the Ingersoll branding. This one isn't pictured in Townsend.

    DSC01884.JPG
     
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  50. Steven Thornberry

    Steven Thornberry User Administrator
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    From what I gather, the patents were all granted to Archibald Bannatyne and assigned to Waterbury Clock Co.
     

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