The 12s Elgin "mustache" lever

Discussion in 'American Pocket Watches' started by Beetlebug, Feb 25, 2006.

  1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.
  1. Beetlebug

    Beetlebug Registered User

    Dec 5, 2002
    33
    0
    6
    Hi,
    I've been wondering about this for a while and maybe someone here can give me some insight. I've been concentrating on collecting the high grade Elgin 12s watches with the motor barrels. I've got a couple 23j grade 190 hunter case models and a 23j 194 open face as well as a number of the 21j and 19j variants. I recently read about the early grade 190s having the counterpoised "mustache" levers on them and when I looked at mine, by George, there it was. However, the open face models with the same jewelling and essentially the same design do not have this. Why? It doesn't make sense to me at all. Anyone knows or can take a crack at the answer?

    Thanks,
    Tom
     
  2. Beetlebug

    Beetlebug Registered User

    Dec 5, 2002
    33
    0
    6
    Hi,
    I've been wondering about this for a while and maybe someone here can give me some insight. I've been concentrating on collecting the high grade Elgin 12s watches with the motor barrels. I've got a couple 23j grade 190 hunter case models and a 23j 194 open face as well as a number of the 21j and 19j variants. I recently read about the early grade 190s having the counterpoised "mustache" levers on them and when I looked at mine, by George, there it was. However, the open face models with the same jewelling and essentially the same design do not have this. Why? It doesn't make sense to me at all. Anyone knows or can take a crack at the answer?

    Thanks,
    Tom
     
  3. Jerry Treiman

    Jerry Treiman Registered User
    NAWCC Member

    Aug 25, 2000
    6,296
    1,623
    113
    Geologist - California Geological Survey
    Los Angeles, CA
    Country Flag:
    Region Flag:
    The use of the counterpoised pallet fork on these is, I believe, strictly related to when the movement was finished. I have two grade 194s, from the same production run, and one has the counterpoised fork and the other does not. They also have different forms of raised gold settings. I believe both of these differences relate to finish date. I have also seen early 17-jewel models with this fork, so I do not believe it is related to grade.
     
  4. Tom Huber

    Tom Huber Registered User
    NAWCC Member

    Dec 9, 2000
    3,044
    188
    63
    Male
    Track & cross Country Coach
    Indiana PA
    Country Flag:
    Region Flag:
    I have a couple of grade 193, OF, 19J that have the counterpoised palate fork.

    Tom
     
  5. MrRoundel

    MrRoundel Registered User
    Donor

    Dec 28, 2010
    1,201
    157
    63
    So. Cal., USA
    Country Flag:
    Region Flag:
    Re: The 12s Elgin "mustache" lever

    It might be of interest to some that even some lower-grade, 7 jewel, 0s Elgins, Grade 198's, made in 1906, have a counterpoised pallet-fork.:?| I was sort of shocked as I took the movement apart for cleaning and saw the nicely polished mustache-fork in place. This is a mustache-style fork, isn't it? This pallet-fork style is also present in my early grade 189 movement that was made in around 1898. But that is a 19J movement. 259911.jpg
     
  6. Dr. Jon

    Dr. Jon Moderator
    NAWCC Member

    Dec 14, 2001
    5,831
    513
    113
    Aerospace Engineer
    New Hampshire
    Country Flag:
    Region Flag:
    Re: The 12s Elgin "mustache" lever

    FWIW the thinking on counterpoise changed about this time. The old view was that counterpoise counteracted position error (I have seen this in some old theory books) and reduced the force to drive the lever. The modern and current view is that the lever must be a light as possible to minimize its inertia. The Elgins probably reflect this change.
     

Share This Page