Tempests in teapots

rmarkowitz1_cee4a1

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Is teapot one word or 2?

Anyhow.

There has been much discussion about the nature and content of postings on the Forums with the opinion expressed by more than a few that there may be an indication for more substantial content and that the current predominant content leads some to consider the Forums not worthwhile of their interest and input..

Well, there is a thread that is endlessly discussing the slow/fast regulator of a rather nice French clock.

Yes, some interesting related information has been presented, e.g., re: silk vs. metal pendulum suspension, "dating", etc.

But PUH-LEESE. Question answered. How does this thread generate so much recurrent interest when threads about scarce and unusual things or more serious discussions are barely looked at but by a few.

And the recent endless thread about "rating" movements with repeated convoluted responses?

Prime examples?

Okay, ready to become the punching bag of the day/week/month

RM
 

musicguy

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RM wrote: more than a few that there may be an indication for more substantial content and that the current predominant content leads some to consider the Forums not worthwhile of their interest and input..
If it's us who create the content then it is us who need to step
up not the new people who are learning. When does the "more than a few" members
you mention stop complaining about the content and create some good substantial content
themselves(said tongue in cheek). That being said, I do believe there is currently a lot of great content on the forum.



Rob
 

rmarkowitz1_cee4a1

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If it's us who create the content then it is us who need to step
up not the new people who are learning. When does the "more than a few" members
you mention stop complaining about the content and create some good substantial content
themselves(said tongue in cheek). That being said, I do believe there is currently a lot of great content on the forum.



Rob
Yes.

Go back & read them.

But it clearly goes beyond a helpful reply.

RM
 

Bruce Alexander

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The standard advice, “well just ignore it” hasn’t helped.
I hope that all is well in your world RM and that you're in good health.

How about some more of your patented Threads in which you post very nice examples of antique clocks complete with historical context and something not horological but era appropriate on the side?

I, for one, always enjoy those. I know that a lot of members do.

I agree with Rob that there is a lot of great content on the Boards and I'm generally limited to a just a few Clock Forums.

Just so long as the rules are being followed and I'm not being attacked, I'm okay with moving along to get along.

Regards
 

MuseChaser

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As a person who completely unwittingly and unintentionally recently created a small miniature tempest in another thread, a couple observations...

1. The written word is easily misconstrued in terms of severity/intensity intended. This is one of the (many) problems with "social media" supplanting human-to-human vocal discourse. Without facial expressions and body language, playfful innocuously-intended statements can be greatly misinterpreted and great offense taken where absolutely NONE was intended, leading to much turmoil and unnecessary ill feelings, pestilence, and moldy produce.

2. There is, as there is everywhere, a "grumpy old men" contingent here, an "excited enthusiastic neophyte" contingent, a skilled, knowledgeable, but inarticulate contingent, an articulate well-spoken but totally clueless contingent, an expert contingent, a completely ignorant contingenet, and EVERYTHING in between. It's called "the world." We are all different. We all have something to offer each other, and we all have much we can learn from each other. I may not have much to offer horologically, but i try to help, when I can, the very few who have even less experience than I. I am extremely grateful for those willing to help me.

3. The thread to which this thread is in reference, which I believe was the thread regarding rating movements according to a specific rubric (a technique that became very much in vogue in public education over the past decade or so, and is very much ingrained in the thought processes of students these days, which may explain the OP of that thread's approach), could easily have been either ignored by those uninterested in the exercise, or replied to, as some did, with "Not interested in spending that much time on the answer, OP, but I do like the following movements for the following reasons...." Taking the poster to task for his enthusiasm isn't really productive.

4. Having said that, I recently made a comment about how difficult reading a stream-of-consciousness unformatted post was. I said it in what I thought was a playful manner, and then responded to the question posed in the post. In doing so, I raised a fairly substantial amount of ire. I suppose, in this day and age where being offended is just about everyone's favorite pasttime, responding solely to horological-based queries in posts and nothing else may indeed be the safest, best practice, but in my view that's a shame. Colleaguial relationships are strengthened by humor, shared outside interests, discussions about viewpoints that may or may not directly inform horological decisions.... all of that. We are people, not just "sources of academic information." Let's be people. Let's be kind. Let's understand that we are not all alike, but that we are all worth the benefit of the doubt.
 

new2clocks

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QUOTE="rmarkowitz1_cee4a1, post: 1466867, member: 15519"]when threads about scarce… things ... are barely looked at but by a few.[/QUOTE]

May I suggest that you have already answered your question without knowing it? The answer is … because they are scarce.

In one of the many threads of yesteryear regarding a topic often repeated (not sure which topic – most likely new membership, but it could have been the viability of the NAWCC, the need for the NAWCC to have for sales allowed on the forums or we will go bankrupt in a month etc., etc.) I put forward my belief that people who otherwise have no interest in horology need to have horology brought to them. More specific to the conversation at hand, people need to see, hear, touch, smell a clock up close and in person to trigger whatever latent interest a person may have in clocks. Reading a thread or a book is more academic than experiencing the item up close and personal.

The clocks that you find, shall we say, boring – the Ridgeways, the German 1920 tall case clocks, the [fill in the blanks] are the clocks that most people have access to and as such, are the clocks that have triggered that latent interest.

May I also suggest that rarity in clocks does not equate to interest in those clocks.

I believe you have a fair amount of ogee clocks and I assume that at least a few are rare. But an ogee can easily be described as boring as a German box clock based on its design. They both are, essentially, a square box. Whereas more ogees use beautiful mahogany as opposed to walnut or oak, some box clocks chime, which is high on the list of a percentage of collectors. Whereas there is more to a clock than its case, the case is the first visual aspect of a clock and, arguably, the magnet to a person’s interest (or lack of interest).

May I also suggest that there is a subset – perhaps a rather large subset – of people who are attracted to the mechanical side of horology, as opposed to tablets by Fenn, and as such are more interested in the intricacies of later clock movements. Just a thought.

when threads about … unusual things or more serious discussions
A bit more detail on unusual things or serious discussions would be helpful.

And the recent endless thread about "rating" movements with repeated convoluted responses?
The thread you speak of is more than just the plausibility of rating clock movements with six categories of clocks and three rating metrics and descriptions of both that are too specific and at the same time somewhat incomprehensible.

It is also about helping a youngster, who is showing a great deal of enthusiasm in horology, to understand (1) the limitations, both in time and in the patience, of those who can help him, (2) the ideals that he has about the objectives of clock companies are more grandiose than the reality. As the saying goes “it takes a village”, and if we are to grow horology, we, as a village, need to contribute. Without knowing it (perhaps), the responders to that thread are acting as the villagers. Hence the large number of responses.

And finally, the NAWCC and by extension, the forums, are a diverse group if individuals. We are not a private club where certain topics are forbidden. We have interests, and the combinations thereof, of history, rarity, mechanics, physics, chemistry, family continuity, woodworking, geography and [please contribute any other categories that I have overlooked].

Regards.
 
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Bruce Alexander

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Good post MC!

Just some thoughts I had as I read through it...

The written word is easily misconstrued in terms of severity/intensity intended.
We have a lot of emoticons. They can help.

a "grumpy old men" contingent here
Very generally speaking, many old folks haven't forgotten what is like to be young, while many young folks don't have a clue about growing old, or up for that matter.

Having said that, I'd hate to see us break into age related tribes although I suppose that is inevitable human behavior.

The thread to which this thread is in reference, which I believe was the thread regarding rating movements
That is the one that I'm familiar with. I haven't read the other.

Taking the poster to task for his enthusiasm isn't really productive.
I try to encourage and welcome new members, whatever their age, whenever I can. I didn't read it as "enthusiasm" being taken to task.

We are people, not just "sources of academic information."
No further comment. In my opinion, it just bears repeating.
 

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MuseChaser

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... I'd hate to see us break into age related tribes .. .
I agree.


Rob
I agree, too. I put the "grumpy old men" in quotes because it's an oft-used cliche (and a great movie) to describe a lovable but crusty attitude. Also capitalized the word "EVERYTHING" in the phrase "everything in between" to hopefully clarify that I was not suggesting that "grumpy," "old," and "men" always went together, nor that they were inherently mutually exclusive. I am 60, which many may consider old, I am male, and even occasionally grumpy, so there are isolated occassions when I own that particular moniker.

I know a couple 20-somethings who are "grumpy old men," and quite a few octogenarians who are excited, enthusiastic neophytes. No ageism was intended in the least.
 

Bruce Alexander

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Okay. I've known a couple of clock-smiths, horologists...(whatever you wish to call folks with a lot of knowledge and experience in the field) who simply refuse to waste much time trying to sugarcoat things. Perhaps it's the constant ticking reminder of our mortality.

Lovable? Perhaps. Crusty? Yeah! :)
 

rmarkowitz1_cee4a1

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Thanks to everyone who replied.

I have endeavored to read all of the responses and to understand them to the best of my ability.

I do feel that there are some misconceptions. Some may arise from the fact that there must be a lack of clarity in my postings and accompanying discussions of quite a few clocks over the years. I will try to respond to some of them. I also think that maybe they need to be revisited by certain individuals and really read. And may it reflect the issue that they aren't read...or truly understood.

In no particular order.

I own only several ogees and have posted almost all of them all. I believe that those who might try to understand and appreciate 19th century American clocks, not necessarily just those who own or wish to own them, but are curious, open minded to and accepting of something different than their typical, would understand that there is nothing typical or boring about them. Subminiature fusee, 2/3 size fusee, miniature weight driven, miniature weight driven alarm time pieces, oversized suitcase ww, one an 8 day with reversed trains, etc. And yes, one standard one but a killer glass worth every penny. I'll take them any day over a box or floor clock produced in the 20's or 30's, especially considering what was occurring in their country of origin in the late 20's and 30's.

And because something is scarce or rare that it some how makes it less interesting?? Don't get that at all.

My postings always discuss the movements as they are almost always part of what makes the clocks, IMCO, interesting. I have a whole thread devoted to a type of movement, American fusee movements. I do try to discuss where movements fit, or don't, into the evolution of American horology of the 19th century. Foolish as it may be, THAT is the technical information about movements I think is valid. Not some silly thread about rating movements based upon what established criteria and by whom? By the way, feel free to add to the table if it's so worth while.

The mocking of an interest in "Fenn glasses" or other decorative aspects of 19th century American clocks does not my reflect my short comings. I believe it is the inability of some to understand the broader context that influenced and shaped these clocks and why they are part of the material culture and history and the time they were produced.

Yep. Same often repeated tiresome argument about how to stimulate interest in horology. Guess what? Hasn't worked. I have tried to address this in another recent related thread. Not always about expensive or rare. No one is out to "forbid" certain postings. A plea for more balance in the range of postings which, as pointed out, are created by us.

It's one thing to encourage, it's another to be permissive. Sometimes it involves redirecting, setting boundaries, advising another course of action, etc. Unfortunately, being clear and firm is confused with being mean and unsupportive. And I'm tired of this absolute repeated BS that equates it with being "grumpy" or "old" or whatever.

Finally, I stand by what I opened this thread with.

How much discussion does a thread about confusing a s/f regulator really need?

The responses to the "other thread", well, knock yourselves out. Nothing achieved there.

RM
 
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new2clocks

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And because something is scarce or rare that it some how makes it less interesting??
No, scarcity does not make it less interesting. Scarcity also, in and of itself, does not make it more interesting.

The mocking of an interest in "Fenn glasses" or other decorative aspects of 19th century American clocks does not my reflect my short comings.
No mocking of Fenn tablets. The example was to show that others, in this case the more mechanically inclined, may be interested, or more interested, in the "innards" of the clock than the, shall we say, decorative aspects of the clock. Neither is wrong nor misguided - just different.

No one is out to "forbid" certain postings. A plea for more balance in the range of postings which, as pointed out, are created by us.
You are obviously pasionate about your horological pursuits. Because someone does not share that same passion, or does not share that same passion to the degree you do, does not make that other person wrong or misguided, just as your passion does not make you wrong or misguided - it just makes people different. And, thank goodness there is a diversity in horological passions. Without diversity, the world would be a boring place.

Regards.
 

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being "grumpy" or "old" or whatever
Just an aside, I've been on the board since 2010...how did our ages ever enter into the general conversation anyway? It's not like our ages are on our profile pages. :?| (Guess it must be optional if it's important to you)

Regarding some of the other points, collectors are opinionated. There's nothing wrong with sharing what makes one collect what he or she is interested in. That is the whole point of collecting isn't it?
 
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novicetimekeeper

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I'm doing my best RM but I don't buy many clocks these days.

I have wondered about starting threads on clocks I don't buy as some are very interesting.
 

novicetimekeeper

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On an additional non horological not it is often suggested tea drinking is a peculiarly British thing.
It isn't, like so much labelled as British culture it was brought to the UK by an immigrant. In this case from Portugal, by Catherine of Braganza who became the wife of Charles II
 
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rmarkowitz1_cee4a1

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I'm doing my best RM but I don't buy many clocks these days.

I have wondered about starting threads on clocks I don't buy as some are very interesting.
Your excellent and interesting contributions to the Forums have been noted by many of us.

What interests you would most likely interest others! .

On an additional non horological not it is often suggested tea drinking is a peculiarly British thing.
It isn't, like so much labelled as British culture it was brought to the UK by an immigrant. In this case from Portugal, by Catherine of Braganza who became the wife of Charles II
Interesting.

I find it rather curious that there are a # of things that are seen as quintessentially "British" but may not be quite so?

My understanding is that certain furniture styles that bear the names of British monarchs and designers were actually derived from Portuguese and Dutch adaptations of Chinese furniture? That "ball and claw" foot started as a dragon's paw clutching a pearl. That blue and white teapot...Asia via Holland and Portugal??

What is perceived as more British than the Royal Family? Well, I believe that they are all descended from German and Bavarian royalty?? They adopted the surname "Windsor" around the time of WW I as their actual name was considered "too German". They were at war with "Cousin Willy"!

"American as apple pie" is an old expression...well, apparently apple pie is very English?

All interesting and fun history!

RM
 

novicetimekeeper

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It's a constant source of fun pointing these things out to some rather pompous nationalists.

the problem with posting threads on things I haven't bought is that the picture may disappear if they are only links to auctioneers websites.
 

rmarkowitz1_cee4a1

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Your excellent and interesting contributions to the Forums have been noted by many of us.

What interests you would most likely interest others! .



Interesting.

I find it rather curious that there are a # of things that are seen as quintessentially "British" but may not be quite so?

My understanding is that certain furniture styles that bear the names of British monarchs and designers were actually derived from Portuguese and Dutch adaptations of Chinese furniture? That "ball and claw" foot started as a dragon's paw clutching a pearl. That blue and white teapot...Asia via Holland and Portugal??

What is perceived as more British than the Royal Family? Well, I believe that they are all descended from German and Bavarian royalty?? They adopted the surname "Windsor" around the time of WW I as their actual name was considered "too German". They were at war with "Cousin Willy"!

"American as apple pie" is an old expression...well, apparently apple pie is very English?

All interesting and fun history!

RM
Unless you get permission to use the pix then save them to your computer then post them as an attached file.

Depending upon the item, may or may not justify the effort?

RM
 

novicetimekeeper

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Permission is usually readily granted to the buyer, I will see how they feel about the under bidder.
 

rmarkowitz1_cee4a1

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Permission is usually readily granted to the buyer, I will see how they feel about the under bidder.
I did it once as but as a non-bidder. It was a wonderful pre-Revolutionary war tall case from Portsmouth, NH. Popped up in a local auction. I know the auctioneer and the buyer. Got permission of both to post pix. Not sure it was necessary, but I do shows with the latter, always makes sense to make "nice-nice". Actually, both were thrilled.

RM
 

novicetimekeeper

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well this was well worth a thread so i hope they agree. sometimes I might end up the under bidder because I have some doubts about a clock and somebody else has more confidence, in that case I think perhaps keep my counsel, in this one it was in the US, carriage quotes were horrendous. It was absolutely fine just not to be.
 

gmorse

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Hi RM,
What is perceived as more British than the Royal Family? Well, I believe that they are all descended from German and Bavarian royalty?? They adopted the surname "Windsor" around the time of WW I as their actual name was considered "too German". They were at war with "Cousin Willy"!
Yes, and if you go back further, before the Hanoverians there were Dutch, Scottish, Welsh, French and more strands in the monarchy.

Regards,

Graham
 

Bruce Alexander

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I see a recurrent theme about how the NAWCC's Forums tend to be regarded as a waste of time for serious collectors. It's a free forum to the public so i suppose we'll just have to expect people of all levels to take an interest in the Community. Some bemoan the fact that Threads they've labored over soon get buried by the common, ever-repeating questions of newbies, etc., etc., etc. Ephemeral works (which can still be found in the Archives)

What about the creation of curated Sticky Threads at the top of each Forum?

Bangster has done so for years with his
"Hints & How To's
Hints & tricks list of tagged threads. Selected by the moderators as useful techniques" located near the top of the Clock Repairs forum.

Surely this must have been considered before.

I'm reluctant to ask even more of our volunteer staff. However, they have to wade through the massive amount of content on a daily basis anyway. If anyone could be complaining about the mundane, I think it should be them. They could easily bookmark candidates for inclusion. Joint decisions on what to include would be the difficult, potentially time-consuming tasks I would think.

Outside of that, one just has to make the decision for themselves. Is making quality contributions here worth your precious time and effort? Does it bring joy?

I was once told point blank that if I didn't like selling clocks in today's market I should just get the "eff" out of the business. Well, there you go. Good advice to chew on. All fiber with no sugarcoating.

The Forums are definitely enhanced by the efforts of serious, experienced collectors just as the Clock Repair forum is greatly enhanced by the efforts of experienced "clock smiths". (Talk about repetitive questions!)

I would hate to lose any of them but life is short and our time is precious. Do what you enjoy.

Regards,

Bruce
 
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rmarkowitz1_cee4a1

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I see a recurrent theme about how the NAWCC's Forums tend to be regarded as a waste of time for serious collectors. It's a free forum to the public so i suppose we'll just have to expect people of all levels to take an interest in the Community. Some bemoan the fact that Threads they've labored over soon get buried by the common, ever-repeating questions of newbies, etc., etc., etc. Ephemeral works (which can still be found in the Archives)

What about the creation of curated Sticky Threads at the top of each Forum?

Bangster has done so for years with his
"Hints & How To's
Hints & tricks list of tagged threads. Selected by the moderators as useful techniques" located near the top of the Clock Repairs forum.

Surely this must have been considered before.

I'm reluctant to ask even more of our volunteer staff. However, they have to wade through the massive amount of content on a daily basis anyway. If anyone could be complaining about the mundane, I think it should be them. They could easily bookmark candidates for inclusion. Joint decisions on what to include would be the difficult, potentially time-consuming tasks I would think.

Outside of that, one just has to make the decision for themselves. Is making quality contributions here worth your precious time and effort? Does it bring joy?

I was once told point blank that if I didn't like selling clocks in today's market I should just get the "eff" out of the business. Well, there you go. Good advice to chew on. All fiber with no sugarcoating.

The Forums are definitely enhanced by the efforts of serious, experienced collectors just as the Clock Repair forum is greatly enhanced by the efforts of experienced "clock smiths". (Talk about repetitive questions!)

I would hate to lose any of them but life is short and our time is precious. Do what you enjoy.

Regards,

Bruce
There is already an extensive list of sticky threads in the General Forum.

You can use the search function to find things. I do it all the time.

The burial of threads is mourned for how it occurs and what it represents.

No body denies that a public forum will attract a range of interests and knowledge. But the balance is out of whack.

There are other factors that cause the Forums to be considered a waste of time by serious collectors. It's our loss.

RM
 

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There is already an extensive list of sticky threads in the General Forum.

You can use the search function to find things. I do it all the time.

The burial of threads is mourned for how it occurs and what it represents.

No body denies that a public forum will attract a range of interests and knowledge. But the balance is out of whack.

There are other factors that cause the Forums to be considered a waste of time by serious collectors. It's our loss.

RM
Already an extensive list....

So what? Add another.

Search function...

Exactly right

Burial of threads....

It's the nature of the beast. If you don't like a particular Thread, why do you read it? Do you just like to complain? We've gone over this already about a month ago with your Lions and Tigers and Bears Thread. Is this the kind of "content" that you want to be known for?

Balance out of whack....

What is this, the world according to Garp? Come on RM. If you want control over content start a Blog or something. Just so long as the rules are being followed what do you care? If you don't care, don't read it. Problem solved.

Other factors....

Yes, and "said" factors are probably all out of our control too. It's your time, do what you will with it. As I said before, start a blog and see if you can get all of these lost souls to join you in Nirvana. You may be wildly successful, or you may find that people find other things to do with their fleeting time.

I hope that you'll stay and continue to contribute some of your better content but it just sounds like you're unhappy here and you're starting to take it out on others.

Please stop doing so.

Regards,

Bruce
 

rmarkowitz1_cee4a1

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Already an extensive list....

So what? Add another.

I'm told that the existing lists are already underutilized. Probably would be the same for any additional lists?

Burial of threads....

It's the nature of the beast. If you don't like a particular Thread, why do you read it? Do you just like to complain? We've gone over this already about a month ago with your Lions and Tigers and Bears Thread. Is this the kind of "content" that you want to be known for?

I often don't read threads typically based upon who started it, the topic, and who has replied. However, I must admit, that curiosity gets the better of me. Sort of like slowing down to see the traffic wreck.

Balance out of whack....

What is this, the world according to Garp? Come on RM. If you want control over content start a Blog or something. Just so long as the rules are being followed what do you care? If you don't care, don't read it. Problem solved.

See above. Not sure how that reference applies, but it has been a very long time since I have read the book. Liked "Cider House Rules" much better. No, no desire to control or censor. I'm not a moderator. To voice concern about the content and direction and maybe influence, yes.

Other factors....

Yes, and "said" factors are probably all out of our control too. It's your time, do what you will with it. As I said before, start a blog and see if you can get all of these lost souls to join you in Nirvana. You may be wildly successful, or you may find that people find other things to do with their fleeting time.

Well, only partially out of our control. I hoped some of the folks staying on the side lines or who have dropped out or cut back might join/rejoin. Admittedly, doesn't look that will happen any time soon.

I hope that you'll stay and continue to contribute some of your better content but it just sounds like you're unhappy here and you're starting to take it out on others.

Oh yes. I plan to very much stay put and continuing to contribute postings about what interests me and albeit a few others. Well, Dr. Phil, quite content actually. I'm already known for these threads. Just hoped things could improve.

RM
 

novicetimekeeper

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returning briefly to clocks, I believe Monday is a holiday so perhaps I might get a reply on Tuesday.
 

Bruce Alexander

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The World According to Garp...

"Based on the John Irving novel, this film chronicles the life of T S Garp, and his mother, Jenny. Whilst Garp sees himself as a 'serious' writer, Jenny writes a feminist manifesto at an opportune time, and finds herself as a magnet for all manner of distressed women."

Seems to be right on point to me. Am I missing your point(s)? If so, please elaborate. You can be extremely subtle when you have a mind to be.

See above. Not sure how that reference applies, but it has been a very long time since I have read the book. Liked "Cider House Rules" much better. No, no desire to control or censor. I'm not a moderator. To voice concern about the content and direction and maybe influence, yes.
Okay, well I ask you to please moderate your methods. I have one young "friend" here. A 28 year old man with health problems who is extremely well versed in certain areas of Horology. He also contributes greatly, in my opinion, to these Forums. He has voiced some disappointment over the way you demean his interests in Clocks. You recently called out a member half his age, telling him he should be doing his homework. You know that I have issues with this member's methods as well. Attacking him the way you did, though, only diminishes you. I think you're better than that Bob. With your intellect and experience, you can certainly work towards your goals more effectively.

Oh yes. I plan to very much stay put and continuing to contribute postings about what interests me and albeit a few others. Well, Dr. Phil, quite content actually. I'm already known for these threads. Just hoped things could improve.
Great! :thumb:

I look forward to more of your excellent contributions.
With your gripe sessions, though, I think I'll practice what I preach. Obviously, you're posting within the rules though you seem to get right up to the line sometimes. So do I.

Best regards,

Bruce
 

rmarkowitz1_cee4a1

NAWCC Member
Nov 26, 2009
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The World According to Garp...

"Based on the John Irving novel, this film chronicles the life of T S Garp, and his mother, Jenny. Whilst Garp sees himself as a 'serious' writer, Jenny writes a feminist manifesto at an opportune time, and finds herself as a magnet for all manner of distressed women."

Seems to be right on point to me. Am I missing your point(s)? If so, please elaborate. You can be extremely subtle when you have a mind to be.



Okay, well I ask you to please moderate your methods. I have one young "friend" here. A 28 year old man with health problems who is extremely well versed in certain areas of Horology. He also contributes greatly, in my opinion, to these Forums. He has voiced some disappointment over the way you demean his interests in Clocks. You recently called out a member half his age, telling him he should be doing his homework. You know that I have issues with this member's methods as well. Attacking him the way you did, though, only diminishes you. I think you're better than that Bob. With your intellect and experience, you can certainly work towards your goals more effectively.



Great! :thumb:

I look forward to more of your excellent contributions.
With your gripe sessions, though, I think I'll practice what I preach. Obviously, you're posting within the rules though you seem to get right up to the line sometimes. So do I.

Best regards,

Bruce
I guess I forgot the central theme of the book. As I said, read it when it first came out which was quite a few years ago now.

Look forward to hearing from you in the future and reading your contributions.

Always feel free to PM, too.

I don't shy from opinions.

RM
 

Schatznut

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Sep 26, 2020
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It is amazing how easy it is to roll a grenade under the bus, whether intentionally or unintentionally, on these forums. We need to pay attention to the quality and content of our posts because tone is difficult to convey and modulate without the visual cues of face-to-face conversation. Emoticons are a tool to try to get over this shortcoming, but they work only moderately well.

The stream-of-consciousness messages, unpunctuated, uncapitalized, uncorrected, and in many cases grammatically unintelligible nightmares, are easily dismissed as drivel. That's unfortunate, because at times there are nuggets of wisdom or knowledge buried within them.

The hip-shot reactions, all fire and brimstone and with little consideration of their value or impact, many of which imply, "Hey, look at me - I'm way smarter than you," are annoying to the extreme and generally add nothing to the dialog. They're simply visual noise.

If one treats his or her postings as throw-aways, one may expect them to be, well, thrown away. If that's the case, why not just save the electrons? If everyone re-read their messages one more time before hitting POST REPLY, much of the miscommunication could be alleviated.

I recently for the first time blocked a conversation on this forum, after having mistakenly waded into it momentarily to try to encourage a little civility. I felt embarrassed for many of the participants. That was a sad day.

Be thoughtful. Be helpful. But above all, be kind. Please. We're all stuck on this rock together and the annual trip around the sun is made so much easier if we're considerate of each other.
 

Dave T

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Dec 8, 2011
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Well said Schatznut.
The only thing I might add is.. if you don't like or agree with a post, it's much better in my opinion to ignore it and move on. Something I have to watch carefully myself.
 

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