tall case clocks

Discussion in 'General Clock Discussions' started by moe schmidt, Dec 26, 2009.

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  1. moe schmidt

    moe schmidt Registered User

    Apr 26, 2006
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    HI ALL" I have been reading the thread on styles of long case or grandfather clocks. mine i dont believe qualifies for 1860 put I would like to know who made the case and when or any information about it. It looks all orginial. the movement was made by Tobias Bauerle in germany about 1897. the gong marked "Volta" was from Kraft Behrens factory in Leipzig german. the key is marked A.Eick Sohne ,Essen,. there is no name on the case. some one told me it is a french case. put I don't know. thanks to all and have a good day.
     

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  2. zepernick

    zepernick Deceased

    Aug 8, 2004
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    Is the gong marked Kraft-Behrens? A. Eick Söhne was a major Möbelhaus, a furniture/home furnishing store in Essen. The clock was likely bought there from them. Could we see photos of the movement with the Tobias Bäuerle markings?

    Regards,
    Zep
     
  3. zepernick

    zepernick Deceased

    Aug 8, 2004
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    And had meant to add that so many of these firms can now be found through simple Google (-like) searches or Google-Books.

    The firm of A. Eick Söhne for example had a two-page ad (below the first page) in a volume about Essen published in 1902. And among the clocks they retailed were Hausuhren.

    Z.
     

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  4. moe schmidt

    moe schmidt Registered User

    Apr 26, 2006
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    HI: zepernick. here are some more photos of the movement and gong. two of the photos of the movement, on the back plate shows a jumping deer. I took this from a copy of another clock. my movement is " exactly" built the same way. that's why I figured it was made by Tobias Bauerle of germany. but mine does not have the trademark. would it have been made for someone else. still would like a date and who made the case. all information will be greatly appreciated. moe
     

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  5. zepernick

    zepernick Deceased

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    Greetings again, Moe. If the movement is exactly the same -- including LxWxbetween-plates measurements, rack shape and tooth count, etc., -- yes, it does seem reasonable to assume it was also from Tobias Bäuerle.

    Not sure however where your 1897 dating is from. The information in Kochmann's Trademark Index is not reliable in the first place. Nor for that matter is the name spelled correctly in the Index entry (it should be Bäuerle or, alternatively, Baeuerle).

    We know that the TM with TB was around at least by 1892 as it was marked as registered in Villingen by then in an issue of the AJU (below). And following the 1894 law which set up for the first time a Reichs-wide registry, it appeared again in an 1897 registration (also below). Both the trademark without the TB and the "wordmark" Hirsch were in use by 1907. But this wouldn't date your movement from then. If your movement had a TM and we had a first-use date for the TM then we'd only know that it couldn't have been made earlier than that.

    As to the case, almost all of the German manufacturers by the first war were offering Hausuhren (grandfather clocks) and lose Hausuhrenwerke. If you were in the trade you could get cased grandfather clocks or just the movements. At the same time, a variety of Hausuhrgarnituren were offered, that is, dials and weight shells and bobs. This was extremely common by the 1920s.

    In addition, those in the trade as well as other retailers (and wholesalers) could buy cases from firms that made clock cases.

    Below is an example -- just one -- from a 1915 wholesaler's catalogue. You could get that particular case in walnut or oak, and a movement by "Adler" (Mauthe) and one of their gongs or a "Flügelrad" movement (Kienzle) or one from "GB" (VFU/Gustav Becker). And all with a choice of glasses and dial, weight shells and bob.

    And there's no indication who made the case. It was all quite normal.

    Regards,
    Zep
     

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  6. moe schmidt

    moe schmidt Registered User

    Apr 26, 2006
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    HI: to all: first, thanks Zepernick for the informatiom on my clock. I read your thread on "separate clock cases". it was very interested reading. I how have a good idea of how my clock was put together { most likely}.. thanks to you and all, have a good day. moe icon12.gif
     
  7. moe schmidt

    moe schmidt Registered User

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    HI: 11 years ago i cleaned and oiled this movement. I could not found a trademark at this time ( i must have been blind) .my movement was made just like Tobias Bauerie movements. today i cleaned and oiled it again and this time i found Tobias Bauerie jumping deer and T.B. with T. B. on the bottom on the inside of the back plate. i never seen a trademark at this location. Kochmann trademark index book does not show this trade mark. see picture. i would like a date and any information on this trademark. thanks moe IMG_0341.JPG
     
  8. JTD

    JTD Registered User

    Sep 27, 2005
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    This mark was registered around 1906 (Mikrolisk).

    JTD
     
  9. new2clocks

    new2clocks Registered User
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    Mikrolisk also indicates that the Tobias Bäuerle TM shown in Post #5 of this thread (with the initials "T B" to the sides of the deer as opposed to the bottom) as being registered in 1906, whereas zepernick shows documentation that the TM was originally registered in 1892.

    I am not suggesting that the mikrolisk site is wrong, per se. Andreas most likely has documentation indicating some type of registration with a 1906 date. But as zepernick described on many occasions, the German trademark registration process evolved from a local to a federal process and it is possible that the mikrolisk site, on occasion, reflects the most recent TM registration, not necessarily the original registration.

    Another example of the above pertains to the "HWN" trademark of Hans Winterhalder. Mikrolisk indicates the TM was registered in 1925, whereas zepernick provides documentation that the TM was registered in 1919. In this instance, the firm changed its legal entity status from a "KG" to an "AG" and also changed its corporate name in 1925, necessitating a re-registration of the trademark. Therefore, mikrolisk is not wrong - it shows the most recent registration. As a result, at times a poster's HWN trademark has been dated to no earlier than 1925 when, in fact, it could have been as old as 1919.

    With respect to Moe's TM, I have not yet found proof that it was registered prior to 1906, but it would not surprise me if the TM was originally registered at an earlier date.

    Regards.
     

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