Tall case calendar motion works repair issues

Discussion in 'Clock Repair' started by klokwiz, Nov 11, 2019.

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  1. klokwiz

    klokwiz Registered User
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    Feb 4, 2009
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    Hi, I am making some repairs for friends on their tall case. Pretty sure it is English. The issue at hand is the calendar motion works were missing and the calendar hand was held to dial with countersunk wood screw into small block of wood on back of dial.

    I have sourced replacement motion works from timesavers and fitted them to the empty hole in movement as pictured. placing this with dial the timesavers calendar gear will be advanced by rotating pin in works one in 24 hours.

    Where I need help is with the mounting of the calendar gear to dial and hand to gear arbor. I have found broken wire end in the dial mounting post as pictured and assume it is used to hold gear to dial as shown in example photo posted.

    My concerns are:
    1) Is there a bushing to be mounted on dial to set the calendar gear in for retaining wire to hold it to? or are they designed to just "float" in hole with wire retainer holding it to back of dial hole?
    2) want to verify direction of calendar gear to dial, it has a cone shaped arbor end and a square machined end. It would appear to me the cone goes to the wire retainer and machined square goes into a bushing or something.
    3) How is the hand normally attached to the calendar gear arbor?

    Any photos and help greatly appreciated, I have other clocks with calendars but not this particular type..

    Thanks, joe

    calendar motion works fitted.jpg dial back with calendar wheel example.jpg calendar hole back of dial.jpg calendar gear broken retaining wire.jpg calendar gear cone arbor side.jpg calendar gear flat arbor side.jpg calendar hand.jpg
     
  2. Uhralt

    Uhralt Registered User
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    Sep 4, 2008
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    I didn't have much luck with the Timesavers calendar wheel. Wrong dimensions and wrong number of teeth for my clock. I ended up having a wheel made in the UK with 60 teeth (I believe to remember) and the diameter I needed for proper meshing. Your calendar hand wheel has 31 teeth, so it needs to be pushed once a day. You need to know many teeth the wheel under the snail has, to come up with the correct number of teeth for the calendar wheel. It should be twice as many as the wheel under the snail.

    Uhralt
     
  3. Uhralt

    Uhralt Registered User
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    Sep 4, 2008
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    Oh, I just see that the Timesavers wheel pushes that hand once in 24 hours. I should read more carefully. I guess you got lucky. Unfortunately I cannot help with your other questions.

    Uhralt
     
  4. novicetimekeeper

    novicetimekeeper Registered User

    Jul 26, 2015
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    The wire isn't a retainer but a friction device to help with indexing. On the painted dials I've seen the date wheel was riveted on the dial.
     
  5. klokwiz

    klokwiz Registered User
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    Feb 4, 2009
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    Since both the motion works and gear came form timesavers they will work together. the motion works pushes the gear once in 24 hours. I got lucky that his set up works on this clock setup. I did have to modify the motion works gear to mesh with my existing gear on the snail. since it was original I did not want to change out with the new gear in timesavers kit. Had to cut down and reshape gear as it was set too deep in snail gear assy. it was about 3mm too big overall.

    If you look closely at my dial back it has bumps on either side this is also evident at the seconds bit hole. The bumps do not appear to have been modified so I am not sure what it is about. They almost seem like maybe just lumps of paint left over from original making of dial. That being said I am not sure that the calendar gear had any type of mount at the hole.

    Unless someone comes up with a representation of how they mounted these gears to the dial, I will likely come up with a reversible modification of some sort. I think the cone shape on the calendar gear is a saddle for the tensioning wire/holder to keep the gear in place and tensioned. So making the retainer wire is the easy part. I will likely fashion a washer to fit into dial hole with center diameter to fit the calendar gear arbor. The washer will be counter sunk to fit dial hole. The complication will be how to fasten the washer to dial so it doesn't shift from hole. It maybe that the tensioning wire will hold the entire assy in place without further fastening. If not then maybe a application of shellac so it can be removed readily.

    Once that is done I will need to determine how to fasten the calendar hand to gear arbor.

    I hope someone can show me an original set up to verify my thoughts on how these were originally designed.

    thanks so far, Joe
     

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